75% Show-Up Rates and Facebook Messenger Bots w/ Molly Keyser | #021
How would you like a 75% show-up rate for your live webinar? How about a 25% take rate for a tripwire offer? Those remarkable numbers belong to Molly Keyser, a creative who teaches boudoir photographers how to book more clients and make more money. So, if you’re ready to see rates like that for your live webinar, then perhaps it’s time for you to give a bot a chance! Molly reveals the exact methods and strategies she used to get a 75% show up rate using ManyChat, a tool that lets you create a Facebook Messenger bot for marketing, sales and support. Learn how to use simple growth tools to skyrocket your webinar registrations and effectively boost your conversion rates.
75% Show-Up Rates and Facebook Messenger Bots w/ Molly Keyser
We have our guest, Molly Keyser. When I did my pre-intake call with her, we were talking about what we were going to discuss with webinars. She had an awesome webinar that got 75% show up rate. I was going to take the interview down that path. We did talk about that and we showed exactly how she got there so you will learn how to get a 75% show up rate on your live webinars. We talked about so much other things like how she has a 25% take on her tripwire offer for people who registered for her webinars, which I’ve never heard of before. She made way more money than our ad spend. You are going to love this episode because the bot revolution is upon us.
Molly, welcome to the show.
Thank you so much for having me. It’s always when you try something new and it just works well. It’s exciting to share it.
My brain is spinning right now with where I want to take the conversation and questions I want to ask you because I haven’t implemented bots yet with my webinars. Why don’t you do an introduction about yourself, what’s your business? What are you doing? Let’s do a little self-promo in the beginning.
I am a creative, that is the simplest way to put it. I’ve been a photographer since I was seventeen years old. That morphed into having a very profitable portrait studio, which morphed into educating photographers online. I also help people with things like ManyChat and launching and stuff on the side. I do many different things and we’re going to keep it all honed in here for you with bots and webinars.
Let’s get a little background information. We met through a mastermind that we’re both a part of. How long have you been using webinars to promote your business or sell your products? What’s your background?
I’ve been doing webinars since 2013. I have not successfully been doing webinars until this year. I wish I had found that secret sauce earlier, but I’m happy to share what I’ve learned.
Take us through the transition. What was happening from 2013 to 2016?
As an educator, you teach your students certain things. Sometimes you don’t even realize that you’re not taking your own advice. I’m sitting teaching people, “Do what works. Don’t reinvent the wheel.” I knew people were doing webinars. I knew people were saying webinars were awesome. Instead of seeking out people who are having great success with webinars, I decided to do what I thought was best. I shouldn’t say they didn’t work.
They did but not nearly to the extent that they’re working for me now. I don’t think I was even paying attention to tracking them. It was like, “This is something you need to do so I’m going to do it.” Webinars are 80% of our business. I really wish that if I could go back and tell myself something, that it would be, to research more and learn from people who have done it before and not try to reinvent the wheel, which is what I teach my students.
Why do you think webinars work so well for your business in the photography niche?
I think webinars work because they’re personalized. Although auto webinars do work, live webinars work way better. I personally don’t know anyone who would argue that. I think the reason is personalization. Especially in my niche, photography is a very personalized type of service and we’re creatives. The internet is great because you can reach a lot more people, but it also loses that personal touch. You can see it when you do webinars. When you log on and you start saying people’s names, welcoming them to the webinar, those are typically the people that end up buying.
It’s very easy for you to see. It’s hard to connect with every single person one-on-one, but with webinars it’s as easy as saying someone’s name, answering a question they have. You’re really showing that you actually care about them and you’re a real live person. You’re not a scammer. You really want to help them with webinars but also in general. The more personalized with testimonials. Videos are better than written things. Webinars definitely comes down to being able to be in there live with your students and personalize the experience for them, to show them that they should invest with you.
When somebody comes to me and they’re like, “Joel, I want you to build a webinar for us. We want to make it automated.” I disqualify them immediately. Unless they don’t know about doing them live, which I don’t think it’s ever happened. I’ll always ask them, “Are you willing to do it live?” If they say, no, it’s like, “Sorry. I’m done.” People don’t understand how difficult it is to really get an auto webinar converting.
You have to go back and figure out what’s the real intention. It’s like, “Your webinars are awesome.” It’s exactly what you just said, Molly, they work well because of personalization and touch and you can hit a mass audience with one presentation and people love you for it. I’m glad that you understand that because not many people do. They’re like, “I just want to go straight to automated. That’s what I want to do.” It’s like, “If you want to go straight to automated, just work on a video sales letter.”
If you do want to go straight to an automated webinar, it’s pretty much like saying you’re willing to throw away $20,000, $40,000 or $80,000.
You’re willing to throw away 10X your revenue.
Every time I do a live webinar, granted I have a large audience. It really depends on how many people you can get into webinar. Every time I do a webinar, I’m making at least $10,000. People might be thinking, “I’m not willing to do a live webinar because it’s my time.” If I’m getting paid $2,000 for an hour, I will take that for the rest of my life. That is amazing.
Let’s dive into a very critical component when it comes to live webinars. Many people struggle with this. With emails, constantly being battled for inbox space, you’re doing something incredible. You posted this in our mastermind and you said, “I just got 75% of my audience to show up.” We’ve had webinars that have had 10% to 15% show up rate. In the internet marketing niche, it’s a little bit more competitive and there are other reasons why they were so low.
It does depend on competitiveness too.
What did you do? Where did it stem from? How did you come up with the idea? Give us a little background first and then let’s get into the details.
I heard about ManyChat and when I heard about it, I was so overwhelmed. I had so many ideas with it that I almost didn’t do anything with it because I didn’t even know where to go. I was also afraid of things like, “It’s going to get shut down.” You know how Periscope was really big and now it’s not. I was like, “It’s probably going to be another one of those things,” and I don’t believe it is. I started out by starting to build my list in ManyChat. I wasn’t doing much with it. I attended a few conferences where everyone was saying you need to double down, triple down on ManyChat. I thought, “If webinars are 80% of my business, why am I not using this for webinars?”
I use WebinarJam and I do like them. I was using it where people would register with their email address and then get follow ups. What I decided to do was ManyChat instead. Essentially, it comes down to you can use your same registration page, landing page, opt-in page, but instead of having them opt-in with email, you can take a button through ManyChat and just have people click and then it registers them through Facebook. One-click registration and then you can use those same follow-up “emails” but you can follow up with Facebook PM. People are getting a private message from your business and they can reply to it too. It’s exactly like ClickFunnels, ONTRAPORT or Infusionsoft but for Facebook messenger.
I’ve got a couple of questions because I’ve got some natural objections. My marketing mind is going around. You put an ad on Facebook. You say, “I’m having a webinar.” They click on the ad. They go to the landing page and normally you’ll have a button that pops up and just type in your email address and then you submit and you register.
You’re just embedding a button. I’ve seen this before. I have ManyChat but I don’t use it. You’ve got an embed button that if they click in it, it says Register with Messenger. They click it and they’re automatically added to your webinar list. After they register, do they get directed to the confirmation page? What happens after that?
I wasn’t aware that you can direct someone to a page after they’ve clicked the button, but you can by the way. Two things, number one, I want to be aware of that. What I was doing instead was people were clicking send to Messenger and it would pop up with a message saying, “I’m glad you’re interested in the webinar.” If you only have one date and time, it’s easy for you to be like, “Now, you’re registered.” If you have multiple dates and times, what we did was they would click the button, a message would pop up saying, “Which date and time would you like?”
Does it pop up on the page or does it pop up in Messenger?
Messenger. They click the button and then a message pops up in Facebook Messenger saying, “You’re interested in the webinar. Thank you. Which date and time would you like?” There are multiple buttons in the actual message where they can click which webinar they want. Based on what they clicked, they’re going to receive a certain message or get put into a sequence. There are so many different things you can do.
Since I wasn’t aware that you could direct them to another page, I was just putting my tripwire. When someone registers for a webinar, I like to have a tripwire. What I was doing is having the tripwire be another message being like, “While you wait, here’s a special on a product that’s going to help you get the most out of this webinar.” I think that was a happy accident because our tripwire sales went up a lot.
Just because of Messenger?
Yeah. It was so simple. It was just in the Messenger. It told them, “You’re going to save 60%. This is going to help you get the most out of this webinar.” You just click. Super simple. I have learned since then that when someone clicks the button, you can have them not only get a message in Messenger, but you can redirect them to any page, a tripwire page, a thank you page, a confirmation page, wherever you want them to go, which is good for pixel tracking.
You didn’t have them redirect to another page. Normally, when you’re running Facebook ads or any paid traffic, a pixel is something that you will put on the next page in your funnel so you can track if that ad converted into a registration. If they register, they’re going to go to that second page. True or false, with this campaign that you’re running, you can track your ad spend but you couldn’t tell how much it was cost per registration.
We couldn’t, because we didn’t know about that feature. What we did was we were just doing per click and then we were just looking at who registered. I don’t do my Facebook ads. I’m not the right person to have all that information for you, but I do have tons of other information for you.
What happens if they click one of those dates?
If they clicked one of the dates, that’s when it would pop up and say, “Thank you for registering. This is your date, this is the time, the link.” All the basic stuff that they need and then it says something along the lines of, “I want to give you a special offer so you can get the most out of this webinar. Pickup our XYZ tripwire product at 60% off. Click here.” The page that they would go to, I had a video explaining what it was, testimonials and things like that. We sold a lot of those tripwires. In case anyone’s wondering it’s at a $59 price point, which I know a lot of people would tell you to do it a lot cheaper. I have a lot better conversion rate when I charge a bit more. I’m thinking of raising it to $99.
You mean you’re not selling it for $7?
I don’t think that’s going to get you very qualified. My products are $1,000. If I’m only selling a $7 tripwire product, the chances of them also having $1,000 might not work out.
We don’t need you to give exact numbers, but how many registrations happened? Can you guesstimate how many sales of the tripwire? That’s an interesting part that we didn’t even talk about before.
I would say at least 25%. We made a lot of money from the tripwire.
It’s probably more than covered the ad spend?
Definitely. We make much more money than the ad spend from our job.
How long have you been doing that tripwire?
I’ve had the products since I started though. It’s one of our most popular products. It gives people results in 24 hours or less, which is important to share with you because that really has to do with the success of the sales of the product.
We just had an interview with Dan Henry. Dan’s a great guy and he’s a very eccentric guy. He has a very polarizing personality, but the dude crushes it with his webinar. He’s actually one of my clients. I was going through his webinar and I’m like, “I can tell you exactly why.” His content was okay.
He gives the results on the webinars.
Any time that you do a webinar, you need to have this. We had a podcast interview with him and we go through all of these but you’re absolutely right. If you can get somebody results with the tripwire, do you think they’re going to show up to the webinar and want to learn more? 150%. I also do the DH, Dan Henry, where I get them results on the webinar. We’re going back into the bots. They’re registering then they get off offered the tripwire, what’s your typical sequence look like to remind them about the webinar?
I remind them about the webinar by doing a 72-hour notice, 48 hours, 24 hours and then I do six hours, three hours and one hour. We do a lot of reminders.
Do you have people complaining about that?
We do get a few people. I think people are probably going to make fun of me for saying this but that’s okay because it works for me. Some of the best advice that I’ve learned is you’re not marketing well enough until you’re annoying people. As soon as you think you sent too many emails, send another email. Once I started doing that, it really helps with sales. The people that complained, they were never going to buy from you anyway. Let’s say we have 800 people register for a webinar, maybe three of them complain.
They’re raising their hands saying, “I’m interested.” We don’t want them to miss the webinar. If you just say like, “You told me you’re interested in this. Make sure you put this in your calendar. I’m going to pester the crap out of you until you show up and then we’re going to be best friends. You’re going to love me because you’re going to get results on the webinar or you already got results from my tripwire.”
Let’s talk about your follow up sequence now. Nobody is going to miss this thing, 75% show up rate. You have the webinar, what’s happening afterwards? Do you do any segmentation like attended and not attended? Is that a custom sequence? What’s going on after behind the scenes?
I keep things really simple. I’m someone who likes to perfect something before I get crazy. For a really long time, we did nothing. We would tell people, “We don’t do replays at all so you better be there.” We would give three different times and no one was able to complain about, “I live in Australia or I live here or I live there,” because we gave three times that covered no matter where you live.
I personally think that’s the best route to go, especially when you’re first starting out. I find that the people that want replays typically are not going to buy anyways. You can give me your two cents. I’m curious to hear it. I don’t tell people I’m going to do replays. I’ve been testing out where one hour after the live webinar, I get them ten hours to watch the replay and I tell them I’m extending the bonuses but it ends at midnight. I don’t have great results with replay.
How long is your follow-up? How long is the replay?
One hour after the live webinar, I give them ten hours to watch the replay. I’ve also tested it where I will give them another 24 hours. I want to give them deadlines, so I want to take away some of the bonuses. I want to give them scarcity urgency. We only get a few sales from replays. It’s something that I definitely need to work on. The lives are what’s killing it for me.
How often are you doing lives? A Couple of times a month?
It really depends what we have time for. I do as many as I have time for because they make a lot of money.
We just did an awesome podcast with one of my clients, Jason Wardrop. There was this stigma in the industry where people think that you should be doing a three, four or five-day follow-up after the webinar. It depends on your angle and your method with the webinars. Most of my clients go straight cold traffic to a live webinar and then the sale. We’ve done four-day follow-up sequences and sometimes they’ll bring in an extra 50% of sales, other times they’ll bomb. In the grand scheme of things, especially if you’re doing them live weekly, you want to make sure that you don’t ruin that relationship with that person who just jumped on your list.
If you think about it, you’re doing them live weekly. Somebody sees an ad, they sign up and they watch your webinar. They don’t buy. The majority of people still aren’t going to buy. It doesn’t matter what you’re doing, even if you’re getting 75% of the people to show up, the majority won’t buy. You want to nurture them, you want to keep you keep warming them up.
If you do a four-day follow-up sequencing, the offer goes away and then very next week you do a live webinar and you make the same offer. You have the risk of burning through your audience and in losing that trust with them. What we did with Jason, I got to give him credit because this was his idea, but I love it. He’s doing something very similar to what you’re doing, Molly, whereas he does a live weekly webinar and immediately afterwards his offer comes down within 24 hours of the webinar.
It’s basically just saying, “You signed up for an event, here’s the webinar. Here’s the replay.” It comes down at end of the day, people will put it off but it doesn’t ruin your trust with them. He will re-invite them once a month. Anybody who jumps on to his list from the webinar, he’ll re-invite them once month. He just dumps everyone who doesn’t buy into the newsletter list.
There’s legit urgency, there’s legit scarcity and those people who were interested, you want to talk directly to them. It’s like, “You told me you wanted to come to this event. Whether you came or not, it’s up to you. Here’s the replay. Sign up for the replay. It will be down twelve hours the end of tonight” There’s also an offer. It’s very direct but it’s not sleazy.
I’ve done the normal launch seven-day thing. It used to work with the types of webinars I was doing before because I think what was happening was I wasn’t really closing people on the webinar. I was warming them up. Whereas now, I close on the webinar and it works so much better. After the whole webinar and the follow-up ten hours thing, I put them into a nurturing sequence where they’re learning more.
It keeps everything simple because now you don’t have to worry about these crazy emails that you have to write. Every email is something that you have to analyze.
I heard it so many times in business, “Keep it simple.” Then you see all these people who do it really complicated and they have really great success too. It’s because they all started simple. They added on more. A lot of my students, they get really hung up with trying to create an entire funnel. I’m like, “No. Just do your webinar, do it live. Then we’ll add a sales page.” All you really need is the webinar, getting people on it and the order form. You don’t even need to tripwire right away. I’m like, “Just get it done and then you can add other stuff.”
How many follow-up messages do you send in your bot?
We just did three. It was, “You have ten hours,” and then, “There’s only five hours left,” then the last hour left. We did get some sales but it’s not even comparable.
It’s really market specific. The reason why we tested that with Jason was because he was getting zero follow-up sales for a year. He might have had one over the course of a year. He must have spent over $100,000 on ads, he was running it live weekly, every single week. We tried everything. We hired copywriters, we wrote the emails, we were trying to send them to an EverWebinar, encore or doing a live encore.
The EverWebinar depends on your audience. My audience got mad about the comments being duplicated. I have a whole other business where the people loved it.
It’s very market-specific. You’ve got to test it. What isn’t market specific is doing a live webinar and just going straight to the sales. He was closing on his cold traffic webinars. He was still closing close to 2% of the registrations into sales with the $1,000 offer. He was crushing it. That’s a multiple million-dollar webinar in most markets but he’s like, “Why can’t I get any follow-up sales?” It just seemed like there was a huge gap there.
Finally, he’s like, “I’m going to eliminate everything on the back end.” After the live webinar, he sends them to an encore which is EverWebinar. It’s an auto webinar that plays top of the hour. He’s like, “Here’s the next one.” He doesn’t say it’s live. He says it’s just an encore of what he did, and he takes the video and uploads it. It’s really what he did earlier in that day. That has worked really well for him. He did $23,000 sales from his cold traffic live webinar.
That is something that I do as well. I tell everyone they’re going to get a free gift at the end just for sticking around and I push affiliated software. I get a lot of sales through those because it’s not just software that I’m like, “I want to make money.” It’s a software that’s going to help them, that they need.
Do you find the freebies actually work?
Yeah. I get a lot of affiliate sales. For example, my niche is I teach boudoir photographers how to book more clients and make more money with each client. At the end of the webinar as a free gift, I’ve teamed up with a software called HoneyBook. It’s for photographers and it’s to essentially book their clients, send questionnaires and send emails and things like that. If they want bookings, if they want to take money online, you have to have somewhere to actually keep your client information. They do 40% or 50% of each sale and they give them a free trial. If you can find software like ClickFunnels, they know what they’re doing with marketing. It’s easy to affiliate them. They do everything on their end.
We haven’t tested any affiliate offers. It was just another lead magnet like, “If you stay until the end, I’ll give you blah, blah, blah.” You get the wrong buyers.
For me, what works is the affiliated products because they don’t take away from your offer at all, but they in most cases, actually need that software anyway.
How do you frame it then in the beginning? Do you call it a free gift?
It depends on my audience. For photographers, I call it a complimentary gift because that’s a keyword in our industry. I tell them, “If you stick around until the end, I have a no strings attached complimentary gift for you.” I tell them that I’ve teamed up with companies that are willing to let me share this as a gift to them. I make it grumpy, it sounds really funny, but I go, “This is on the last slide so don’t ask me half the way through, don’t ask me a quarter of the way through, don’t ask me 75% of the way through. It’s on the last slide. No, you can’t email us to get it later. It turns out you actually have to pay attention to get this.” I get grumpy on that and it works.
In the internet marketing crowd, we found that it doesn’t work because you track to freebie seekers, but I go back and forth with it. Do you lead with it in your pre-webinar reminders? You say, “There’s a free gift down here.”
I just mention it during the training when I’m going over like, “Turn off your cell phone and all that stuff.” I say, “I’m not about bribing you because I know that the information I’m going to share with you is going to change your business.”
We started on this podcast. I was really excited about bots and getting a 75% show up rate. Molly, you showed us you do one quick registration with the embed button. You didn’t even send them to a confirmation page. You weren’t even tracking your pixels. One quick registration with Facebook, six pre-webinar reminders to make sure that that they show. You also gave them the option to choose between three times. You used WebinarJam and you used the emergency link.
A really quick tip that I learned the hard way, you don’t have to create a new webinar for every date and time. You can just create one webinar with certain dates and times. Even though there’s only one or emergency link, it works for all of those dates and times.
Multiple dates and time, then they click the button. After they confirm, they get offered 50% discount to one of your products and you have 25% take rate, which is insane.
Once you have a good product that can get people results right away, it’s a lot easier to sell it.
Is there a deadline for your one-time offer? Do you have the scarcity or urgency?
Yeah. When they go to the page, it says, “If you click out of this, it’s never going to be offered again.” In the message, I believe it’s 24 hours.
Is it a legit Deadline Funnel countdown timer?
I used Deadline Funnel and I have a timer on there. I don’t remember how long we actually leave it for. You definitely want to leave it a little bit longer than you say you do.
We actually had Jack Born, the guy who created Deadline Funnel. He was on my podcast. I think every time we have a podcast guest, they say they use Deadline Funnel. If you’re not using it, you hate money.
I feel like it’s a good price too.
We’re running a contest promotion. We’re giving away a year’s subscription to Deadline Funnel. I was talking to Jack and he’s like, “Can you look at my webinar and give me your feedback?” I was going through it, his offer was $397. I’m like, “Why? Raise your price.”
I think at the beginning when you first start, it’s not a bad idea because then there’s less barrier entry, but as you know your product’s amazing, raise that up.
25% take on your $59 OTO using Deadline Funnel, six pre-webinar reminders. Then we get to the post webinar. You leave it up for roughly 24 hours, maybe a little bit less. Whatever it is and you’re crushing it. With a 75% show up rate, what was your conversion rate on the sale?
It was 15% of those who attended, which means we really got way more sales because normally, we would have 20% to 30% that show up.
Was that 75% across all three webinars?
We’ve got right around 75% for all the three I did.
My objection with ManyChat is putting everything in Facebook’s hands. I now don’t have their email address. From a marketing standpoint, that was my biggest objection. I don’t want to give more of my stuff to Facebook.
I have two answers to that. The first one I’m going to blow your mind with, and I’m not going to let you respond because I’m going to share the second one with you. I’ve got a message from ManyChat that they have partnered with Zapier, and whenever you get someone on your ManyChat list now, you can integrate it with your CRM. The second thing is when someone registers for your webinar, they are going to go into your ManyChat.
If you’re using something like WebinarJam, when they actually show up for your webinar, they still have to put in their name and email to actually enter. You are collecting the leads of the people that are actually showing up, which are the most important people anyway. You can follow up with them still. I personally don’t feel like it’s a loss at all. If I’m not going to get a sale right away from something that I know is a really good offer, they’re probably never going to buy from me anyway. Now, there’s Zapier.
It’s one of those objections that you really shouldn’t worry about at this time. You’re not going to get their email address, but they’re still on your bot list.
Email is only anywhere from 5% to 30% open rate. ManyChat is 80% to 99% open rate.
I know with ManyChat, you can do JSON. You can actually remove a step of what you’re doing now and just have them click the ad and register. Have you tried that? What is your opinion on that?
We have. My husband runs our Facebook ads and we did the JSON thing, but we ended up attracting a lot of spam bots, hundreds upon hundreds. It was not good for us.
That’s a money saving tip right there because I’m like, “What if we remove another step?” If you’re using a bot, do you think there are other bots out there that are clicking on all your ads?
Absolutely. Word of the wise, send them to your page, then embed the button there for now. I think that’s safe.
We do promote it that way. We also promote it another way. I will do a lengthy, almost like a blog post, but a status on Facebook. I’ll have them reply with the word, “Yes.” It will pop up asking them what date and time they want for the webinars. Usually it’s a lengthy status and then it tells them a story about how I had great success or a student did or something like that. It turns into, “You can learn this too through my webinar.” I’ve also done videos where I’ll share a helpful tip, pitch the webinar and just say, “Comment yes.” It’s a growth tool in ManyChat but those are the ways that we promote it.
ManyChat will monitor to see if anyone said yes and it will automatic reply.
You just integrate it with ManyChat and it will auto send them a message.
I heard that that’s also really key for Facebook too because they want engagement.
We’ve had great success with that. It’s definitely been the regular registration page with the one click and the statuses where they reply with the word and you can have them reply with anything. I’ve just learned that having them reply with “yes” makes them excited and positive.
Is that a status on your fan page or is that a status on your personal profile?
A business page. I don’t think you can integrate with the personal profile.
Do you promote it? Do you put any ad spend?
I don’t do Facebook ads, I boosted it and it worked. My husband run real Facebook ads.
Molly, I learned a ton. I know my audience is going to take away a ton and they’re going to love this episode. Where can they find more information about your genius marketing ideas, boudoir photography or whatever? What do you got?
I do actually have a business where I teach people about bots, launching, stuff like that. I have a freebie for you. You can just go to VentureShorts.com/ListGrowth.
I’m excited to have you on Molly. I had a blast. Marketers talking to marketers, nothing can go wrong when that happens. Go check out Molly’s site. Let her know that you’ve heard her on our Sold With Webinars Podcast. Everybody else who’s here, we’ll talk to you next time. Thanks for tuning in. Thanks so much for being here. We hope you enjoyed our episode and we look forward to giving you the next one. You can also follow and watch the behind scenes look at how I’m personally launching a brand new six and seven-figure product from scratch at SoldWithWebinars.com/TV. If you’d like to come hang out with other fellow experts, join our Facebook group at SoldWithWebinars.com/Experts. Join us next time and I’ll see you there.
About Molly Keyser
I started my first business at 19 (a photo business), I was broke. Like .81 cents in my bank account after crying at the bank to not hit me with another overdraft fee, broke.
I was living with my grandma, I had just dropped out of college (hello $60k+ in student loan debt) and my boyfriend was 4 hours away at another college.