Connect With Your Audience, Boost Conversion Rates With Demio w/ David Abrams | #013
You’ve probably been hearing about the Demio software and hearing great things about that platform to host your live webinars. David Abrams, co-founder of Demio dives into the whole purpose for why he decided to create the webinar software platform to help boost conversion rates. He says creating Demio involved a big background in doing the marketing, doing the webinars, and understanding the value that they give to businesses. David is a true blue entrepreneur at heart and talks about some cool things about why webinars are important, how to increase your conversion rates, and how to increase that connection with your audience.
Connect With Your Audience, Boost Conversion Rates With Demio with David Abrams
I’m super pumped about having our guest on the show, David Abrams from Demio. I met David on a trip to Orlando at a marketing event. I’ve been hearing about the Demio software and hearing great things about that platform to host your live webinars. When I talked to David, I wanted to go into the whole purpose for why he decided to create the webinar software platform. David is a true blue entrepreneur at heart. Listening to why he created this software and the key reasons for why he decided to create Demio took me back to why I got into this business for myself and why I started out as an entrepreneur. We even talked about some cool things about why webinars are important, how to increase your conversion rates, and how to increase that connection with your audience.
David, what’s up? I’m glad to have you.
Thanks so much for having me, Joel. I appreciate it. I love chatting with you. I have a lot of stuff that we can share on the call.
David and I had a call with his Demio audience. We spent about an hour jumping into all things webinars and I told him, “I need to have you on our podcast. We have yet to talk about webinar software. You’ve got this stuff nailed down.” Before we get into that part of the content where we’re going to be talking about, give my audience a quick introduction about your history. Why are you qualified to talk about webinars?
The deeper I go with webinars and the more we build in the tech, the more I feel I’m not as great as some of the amazing webinar experts out there, but I’m always trying to learn. My background started in marketing and business. I had started my own company about six years ago as a website designer. I built up a web design agency. We started doing pretty well and getting better contracts, doing corporate style websites, bigger and bigger and bringing conversion metrics. I had learned online marketing through an internship prior to, and had ended up being a full time position where I became the Marketing Director. I started learning through that stuff, learning about webinars, we used webinars at that company as a big tool for growth. Automated webinars weren’t even out yet.
We used a little PHP script to automate how a webinar would run. There was no software, there was nothing around it. We used it to grow this business from $0 to seven figures a year online. When I left that company to build my own, they were doing about $300,000 a month, some amazing amount. We had built it up. I went off, did my own. I thought it’d be easy, but I struggled my way through building companies. What I learned in that first agency was about scalable methods of management and growth, systems in your business, and also marketing systems. How do you as a one-man show and an agency handle all that stuff that happens?
Although that didn’t end well with a partner leaving, I learned a lot about what it took to have those systems in place. The next company that I created was Systemize.ly with another partner. We were doing marketing funnels for people. This was before the funnel hacking stuff came out and everybody was a funnel person. We were one of the only agencies. There were ten major agencies out there and we were one of them. It was a lot harder then because people didn’t understand what a funnel was. Now, it’s a hot word. You say funnel, everyone wants to do that. Everyone wants a webinar funnel. Back then everyone was like, “I don’t know why I need these things.”
We were selling those and we were doing well. I brought a lot of that system knowledge. The continual one that we kept doing that won over and over was the webinar funnel. We would build either an automated webinar funnel or live webinar funnel. We would start adding in segmentation to it and making sure that the right message was given to the right people. We were building these deep funnels with a lot of segmentation and trying to dial in on that stuff. My partner currently, my co-founder in Demio also had his own online business and he had an info product and membership. He was growing rapidly online and we both got into internally doing webinars ourselves, but the problem that we kept hitting was that marketing and segmentation automation was never easy.
We either had to put three or four systems together or we were using software that we hated. It was buggy, really laggy. GoToWebinar crashes on us. We have a lot of individual knowledge. I had a lot of technical and operational knowledge that I had built up over the years of running these agencies. He had a lot of the marketing and the visionary knowledge of how we can make this together as a platform. We went on this journey. It took about two years to get to beta, and then from there we did four months of beta and we launched to the public. That’s how we got there. It’s a big background in doing the marketing, doing the webinars, and understanding the value that they give to businesses.
You go from starting as an employee at a web design company and growing that to seven figures per year, realizing that webinars were the biggest key to scalable growth for them. You go into creating your own funnel agency, marketing agency. Helping people implement all sorts of different types of funnels there. Now you’ve got Demio, you’ve realized the power of webinars and you’re trying to simplify it. Every time somebody is talking to me about webinars, saying, “Joel, what’s the best software to use?”
To be honest, until now I hadn’t tested out Demio. We would recommend some basic ones and some common ones, which I know that you’re aware of. Quite honestly, there are a couple of live webinars. The biggest one that I see, the kicker is the live webinar. It’s either really expensive to get live webinar software, especially if you want more than 100 attendees then it gets pricey. There are some other popular ones that have marketing features that aren’t reliable at all. Tell us a little bit about what was the story behind Demio? Why Demio?
We were trying to scratch our own itch, solve our own problem, to create a platform that was easy to use, that reduced a lot of the technical overwhelm. That made it simple to create the automations that we want, the segmentations used for marketing and sales to look beautiful and have a great attendee experience. I know that’s a lot of checks, we were trying to do a lot of things. When we first got started, we were a little naive. We had this huge vision of the product. We had whiteboards across our office. We’d gotten this huge office. We’re going to be a startup. We wrote down a million things that we wanted to do. We tried to do it in two months and failed miserably on all this stuff. We realized we wanted simplicity. After a variety of technical hiccups, it took about two years to build this. Along this journey, we realized that simplicity was the key thing to webinars.
At the core, you just want to connect with your audience. You want a way to get your audience on. You want to share your message with them. You want to be able to answer questions. You want to share your sales message or your marketing message, present a call to action at the end. Sometimes you’re always doing live trainings, you want to have a good way to connect. We said, “That has to be the core focus.” Let’s focus on the reliability, the simplicity, the ease of use. Let’s make something that the attendees love and that the presenters love to use, but that’s also high quality.
That’s the route we went. All the marketing and automation tools that we added in there, we took the same approach. How do we make this simple? We wanted to take what could be a week long process to set up a webinar campaign and make it literally a few minutes. We run our webinar campaigns that literally just copying a past webinar. All our automation stayed the exact same. We run the same webinar. It’s super easy. It’s like a copy and we have the webinar date set up. We’ll have a live webinar campaign running in minutes. Simplicity was the key core aspect there.
It’s easy to say that simplicity is the key aspect, but I want our readers to understand what simplicity really is. If you can, without going into techno babble, explain what you mean by simplicity. Why is it important? More importantly, what challenges did you run into, to separate yourself from the competitors?
For any business person, the understanding of simplicity or even essentialism is important. In the world where people fight over features and they compete either on price or on feature creep, it’s hard to reconnect with simplicity. A good example of a company that’s dialed into simplicity is Apple. The core thing that you’re trying to do is done really well. You’re taking the user experience into deep consideration when you create every single thing. Does this add to the experience? Does this decrease from the experience? Does adding a feature, even if a competitor has this feature, actually give something more? Is it another step that someone has to do? Simplicity is very difficult to get to, but the idea of simplicity is that you want to be able to do the core things well, and be able to get it done quickly.
Most people don’t buy software to get in there and play with 100 feature sets. There are those people who are addicted to buying things. They want to set it up and they’ll never use it. Most people want to get a tool to get a result. They’re looking for the result. No one’s buying webinar tool to play with it. They want to have a webinar tool to connect with their audience. They want to sit in an event and have all the automations fire and connect. For us, it was honing in on what is the critical piece that we’re trying to solve and what we’re trying to help people with. It doesn’t matter what business you’re in. Simplicity is always important. For us, and where we failed initially when I said we had all of these ideas and designs, was that we didn’t create what’s called an MVP or a minimum viable product correctly enough. You can do this with funnels or products, so an MVF, minimum viable funnel.
What are the basic core things that we need to do well and how do we then test it, create it, test it and make sure that is indeed the right approach, either the product or the funnel? Our customers converting in the funnel, the customers like the software, are we getting buyers? After that you can iterate on those items based on what the feedback is, whether on your funnel or on your product. For us, the idea of MVPs and simplicity go hand in hand because you can easily go down this path of building every single feature your competitor has. China builds literally every tiny detail and take years and years. You launch with the core aspects of what you need, again with the user experience in mind, thinking through how it’s going to affect them and then putting it out there like that.
I don’t want to say software’s all about features, but from a consumer standpoint that’s one of the things that they get hooked on. With that being said, knowing what webinars do to grow a business, growing it to seven figures, people don’t understand why a webinar funnel is better than any other funnel out there. What’s the key feature? What’s the key core concept that you guys focus on when you launched Demio that will make you say, “If nothing else works, this is what we want to have happen.” How about that?
The key there was connection. For us, the key was we want to connect you with your audience because at the core essence of what a webinar is, it’s about building relationships. The idea here is that you’re giving content, you’re connecting with your audience, you’re engaging and you’re interacting. It’s having a conversation like me and you. This conversation is much more personal than you going to a sales page and reading this information or you going to an article and reading this information. You are learning a little bit about me. You’re taking some time to interact with me, to learn from me, to get a personalized experience. We’re building a relationship together. At the end of the day, the truth is that whether we like it or not, people do business with companies they know they can trust, that they feel that they can invest into.
It’s not always the product. It’s about the pain point that’s being solved and that person is going to be the one to do it or that company is going to be the one to do it, and they’re in the right place for it. The power of a webinar is that connection. It’s the fact that you’re on together, whether it’s live or maybe a simulated event which doesn’t have the same conversion. In a live webinar, you’ll have the ability to have that conversation, to interact, and to be personal. I often stop on my webinars, even in the content, and I’ll answer questions or I’ll even go deeper into a topic. I’ll say, “Does that make sense?” I’ll let people feedback and I’ll even do a personalized dig in so that they understand the concept even on their own level for their own business.
I feel those relationships are important. I want to make sure that they’re walking away from this webinar with real knowledge. The idea of the webinar is to connect with your audience, build relationships, build trust, and build transparency. You want them to know that they’re in good hands, whether you’re selling a product or you’re doing training. That’s the core. For us, it was how do we make a low latency, high quality application that doesn’t have a lot of hurdles or hoops to jump through? You can literally create a webinar in two clicks, launch, be live and have people joining really quickly in a beautiful room that makes you have a good experience, makes you want to interact in the webinar.
There are a couple of key things there that I want to reiterate for my audience. It’s the fact that when people jump into this online world and they start thinking about online marketing, “How am I going to grow my business?” They’re looking at all the different types of funnels. I’m not sure if they understand this or not, but I’ve seen this with all the conversations that I’ve had. They missed the boat in realizing not necessarily why webinars are effective. They think that they get on the internet they’re like, “Automation. I can do all sorts of stuff and I can get automatic customers.” You can do that. You’ll always get better conversion rates the more that you can talk to somebody one-on-one.
Whenever I collect a phone lead, I know that I can get way more revenue per lead when it’s pushed through a phone sale. Through phone sales, we all know that that’s only scalable to a certain extent. What’s the next best thing? That’s where webinars come in because you can have that interaction. You can have that one-to-many sales process. I want people to understand that the more intimate you get with your customers, the more you can grow. From a scaling standpoint, that’s why webinars are impactful. It’s all about relationships and connections. That’s why webinars work well. That’s why you guys built Demio.
One of the things that we do here is we offer a one-on-one free demo of Demio. I’ll do ten to twelve, literally prospect one-on-one calls a day. I talk to people one-on-one, learn where they are in their business, and have that connection. I truly feel that although we do webinars as well, I love the idea of real connection. It’s easy for people when they build an online business to try to hide behind the computer, to say automation will sell everything. Sales pages, VSLs, all that are great, but you’re looking at 1% conversion, 3% conversion.
Webinars convert high, 10%and 15% conversion rates on live webinars. You see these numbers. Why? The event itself is powerful. There’s real built in scarcity. There are real relationships. There’s real excitement. There’s real engagement. The only other thing that you can do for those same exact effects is a sit down conversation, a live event where you’re standing on stage, a one on one conversation like this, or a webinar. They’re powerful, but like you said, they’re scalable. They’re easy to do and of course you can do things like get tracking and automation, and learn from them.
The other mistake people make is that they look at webinars as a one-time event. They run this event, it’s over, and that’s it. Webinars are living and breathing mechanisms of marketing. You do a webinar and the next day you can run traffic to another webinar. Do it again, learning from the webinar the day before, putting in the objections that they got in chat. They can adapt it and grow it to get the conversions. You do a lot of optimization once you have a webinar campaign going. Optimization is key in a webinar. You don’t get that same effect from a sales page because you don’t know what objections people are thinking. There’s a one-way conversation happening on a webinar. You’re giving a two-way conversation. You can learn, adapt, grow, and become better with that.
That’s why I’m a huge advocate for webinars, that’s why you’re a huge advocate for webinars, and that’s why we promote them heavily. Depending on the type of product that you’re selling, as long as you can get the traffic, as long as you can get the eyeballs, you can grow quickly any business that you want. We’re doing webinars in almost every niche imaginable and we’re about to expand into ecommerce, because the ecommerce is going to crush it with webinars. The clients that I’ve got, we’re selling a $700 info product on how to play piano and it’s crushing it. We took two infomercials, converted them to webinars and we’re crushing the performance of the infomercials. These were $250,000 productions for the infomercial market.
In Demio we can see the webinars that are coming up and there’s a lot of niche webinars that you would never think of. They probably do well in new niche markets a lot of times because webinars came in from the internet marketing community. There’s much marketplace awareness of webinars than I am, but a lot of these niche areas don’t know them yet and they’re still crushing like when they first came out.
You’re big advocate for live webinars. As you do live webinars, what are some key things that you like to implement to make the best experience possible? What have you seen make the biggest improvement for conversion rates live on a webinar?
First and foremost, it’s about the big promise. That webinar itself, whatever you’re going to promise to give and offer on that webinar, that big promise actually adds. Webinars are a numbers game, you change one number and you can change everything in there. The big promise can be used on your registration page, messaging, so that’s your registration opt-in percentage. That’s your headline basically. Whether it’s on your advertising, how are you enticing people to the advertising? That’s cost per leads, the amount of traffic you get. It’s also your show up rate. How excited are people to show up to that webinar? How excited are people to stay through the webinar? Understanding and locking in on what your big promise is, and doing some testing on seeing what language and what angles are best for that audience.
Once you find the winning big promise for that webinar, you can use it over and over. Tweaking a couple of those numbers like decreasing your cost per lead and being able to drive more traffic means more opt-ins, which means more show up rate, which means more conversion. Even if your conversion stayed static at 10%, you just changed one of those other numbers, you’re making more money. All of those little tweaks make huge differences down the road.
The other thing that I’ve seen that’s worked well but I’m always harping about is incentives to stay on the webinar. Things that you’ll get out at the end of the webinar, this has been around forever. I’ve seen people do entire slides, five minutes of talking about what people get at the end of the webinar. They’ll come up with these small, free products, complimentary items that help the pitch at the end, but they’ll get them for free if they stay to the end of the webinar. They’ll spend five minutes breaking them down, selling these items, making people excited for them, getting people retention of the webinars, getting people to stay until the close. If you can keep 25% of the people that you should drop off on the webinar, your conversion rate, even if it stays static, it goes up.
Another thing is trying to be engaging. I like to stop and ask questions throughout the presentation. I just don’t like to talk at people. I want to have the engagement. I want to have people excited. Sometimes it means pausing for a little bit, being okay with a little bit of wait time so people can talk and putting questions. I love to do that because the engagement is such an important part of that. If people are just listening and not really in the browser, they’re half-heartedly listening, your marketing message will never connect. You got to try to figure out ways to bring people back into the messaging.
There are a couple of interesting things there. I don’t want to say it’s conflicting data but it’s more market specific. Especially the markets that have been saturated with webinars, we have been noticing that when we give free gifts to stay until the end, we attract non-buyers. We attract freebie seekers. We’ve been moving away from that. A lot of my clients are in heavily saturated webinar markets. One of the things that we started doing at the end was our testimonials would be the hook to the end. We would say like, “If you stay until the end, I’m going to let you hear it from these certain people in their own words how they experienced X, Y, Z product.” I do have some other clients that still do those free giveaways at the end, and it does work. I love hearing different strategies and people in different markets.
Do you advertise those in the emails? You’re saying, “If you show up we’ll give you these X, Y and Z?”
No, to be honest with all the clients I’m working with, we don’t have a “Stay until the end.” We don’t advertise that. We do have some low show up rates though. I’m sure that could help. We sell testimonials as hooks because testimonials work very well. That’s not against them, we’re in the lot to make money online markets and you don’t want freebie-seekers.
That makes a lot of sense. The testimonials are a strategic way to do it, especially if you sum it as customer success stories. You’re giving away tidbits of information and how they utilize the product in specific ways.
The way that we frame it is we say, “You’re going to hear it from our story, you’re going to hear our personal experience, but you might not be representative of our story. We’ve got tons of success stories and we want you to hear from them.”We’ll play videos from them and have them talk about it in their own terms. We’ll say, “At the end if you want, we’ll play those for you.” It’s funny because it’s not really valuable. It’s nothing tangible what they’re receiving, it’s more people selling our product. That’s the hook to stay until the end.
We talked about a lot of amazing things. We’ve talked about why webinars are important to grow and build that connection, especially in the online world where people can hide behind their computers. They want this whole laptop lifestyle of automation and push button easy. We talked about the relationship and the connection. We talked about how Demio focuses on simplicity and we all know that there are other platforms out there that aren’t simple to use and aren’t reliable. What’s one thing that we can leave our audience with that they probably aren’t aware of right now? They might not be testing with webinars that you’ve seen from your experience. Connect it to Demio.
The idea of testing, this is not a new thing at all. Understanding what’s happening in the webinar, where attention is being dropped, where focus is being lost, and understanding how you can shift and change where you put engagement points or even objection overcome. That’s looking at data and understanding, “If I had a drop off here or people are leaving the browser here, I might need to shift and change my presentation,” because those points show you exactly what’s happening on your webinar. It’s like if you’re doing a sales call and every time on the other end someone puts you on hold and wasn’t listening while you were talking, and they would come back to the end, hear that, and then go, “That’s right.”
If you don’t have tracking in there and you’re not paying attention to what’s happening on that webinar, that actual data, you’ll just think that the whole sales pitch is the problem. The key thing is that you didn’t connect enough in the section that you needed to build the pain points or to connect with your audience. The things that need to be changed are different areas that you knew about. It’s diving in there and understanding what your presentation is doing, what your presentation is giving, where you’re falling down or what you could optimize is the best way to do it. I’ve seen many people take a great presentation and they’ve changed the offering, they’ve changed the big promise and they shifted many things. The reality was they didn’t connect enough with the audience, they didn’t have the right pain points listed earlier or the solutions that they gave weren’t initially the right solutions for the avatar that they were attracting to that webinar. That is one of the key things that I’ve definitely seen and I always recommend for people.
David, where can my audience check you out? Where can they go learn more about Demio? How can they connect with you?
Come to Demio.com. We have live chat on the website. You guys can chat with us anytime. We’re big on communication. You can also take a fifteen-minute Demio test drive with us. We’ll do a demo one-on-one with you and you can check it out. We’ll experience it live. If you guys come from this interview, reach out and say I recommended you guys. I’ll get you a fourteen-day free trial to get signed up and check it out.
David, I appreciate your expertise and your knowledge. I know that my audience is going to take away a lot from this interview. If you’re reading right now, please give David a shout out. Connect with him on Facebook, connect with him on Demio. David is a great guy. There are not many software products out there where they get intimate with their user experience, with their users, and with their customers. That speaks a lot to a software company. We used it on our interview together and I was super impressed. David, I appreciate you and I thank you for hopping on.
Thanks so much.
Thanks so much for being here. We hope you enjoyed our episode and we look forward to giving you the next one. You can also follow and watch the behind scenes look at how I’m personally launching a brand new six and seven-figure product from scratch at SoldWithWebinars.com/TV. If you’d like to come hang out with other fellow experts, join our Facebook group at SoldWithWebinars.com/Experts. Join us next time and I’ll see you there.
About David Abrams
” An essential aspect of creativity is not being afraid to fail. ” – Dr. Edwin Land
There is a lot to be said in the quote by Dr. Edwin Land, mainly that we as humans are often too consumed by our fears of failure that we forget to take the first step.
Creativity is more than just art. It is the backbone of our society, our culture, and our BUSINESS.
David Abrams is the combination of the left and right brain intertwined, a culmination of the creative and the structured in one. David is extremely dedicated to helping Online Business Owners and Entrepreneurs maximize both their Creative and Operational abilities.
David has a firm belief that there is a solution to every problem, an answer to every question, and that with the right systems EVERYTHING and ANYTHING can be automated.