How To 4x Your Conversion On Live Webinars w/Tim Paige | #024
You can sell anything to anyone. For some who are awesome at sales, that would be easy. For anyone else who’s trying, that comes down to packaging, positioning, and pricing your products. If you want to 4x your conversions and totally crush it, Tim Paige is the go-to webinar expert for some strategies on how to run an effective webinar.
As the former Senior Conversion Educator at Leadpages, he was able to generate over $10 million in revenue by hosting over a thousand live webinars for them. Since then, he’s gone off on his own with a number of clients. Tim takes us through the kits and caboodle of his journey from being a vacuum salesman into an online course expert.
How To 4x Your Conversion On Live Webinars with Tim Paige
I am so excited about this one. I have my interview with Tim Paige. It’s not every day that I get to talk to somebody, not only in my local area from upstate New York, but he’s also a webinar expert who hosts webinars for other people’s behalf. I was looking forward to this because there was so much that I can talk about. Anyone of you who know my background, I’ve got started in that exact space. I was hosting webinars for other people. That’s how I became an expert in webinars. You are going to learn a ton from our conversation.
Tim is absolutely crushing it with his conversion rates. He’s going to talk about how he more than quadrupled his conversions by doing a weird trick in the Q&A section and a whole lot more that we talked about. We talked about offers. We talked about offer anxiety. We talked about 4X-ing your conversions. You are going to love this episode. It’s one of my favorite episodes that we’ve had to date thus far. Without further ado, let’s get into the interview so you can take these strategies and apply them to your webinars.
Tim, welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me. It’s so funny how we got connected through a bunch of mutual friends. We both live in Upstate New York within a couple of hours of each other. Webinars are both of our full focus.
I think we can stake claim in saying that if you run webinars, you need to at least hire somebody from Upstate New York to make this work because I think collectively we’ve probably done tens of millions of dollars in sales on webinars. I had my pre-interview conversation with Tim. I’ve got a little bit of background on where I want to take the conversation.
I’m going to make this one a little bit different because of how similar we are and our backgrounds are relatively similar of how we got started in the online business space. Both of us started hosting webinars for other people. After I have Tim give his own introduction about himself, we’re just going to riff and fire questions back and forth and see where the conversation takes us.
He did drop some serious value on how to run an effective webinar. We’re going to talk about that. After that, it’s going to be open and free flowing. We’re going to see where this takes us. Tim, give my audience a background, who you are? Why are you so special? What’s so cool about Syracuse, New York? Tell us a little bit about yourself.
Most importantly, what’s so cool about Syracuse, New York is our basketball team although not so much. I am just a simple dude. I live in Syracuse. I’m married to the most amazing woman in the world. I have two sons. That’s the most important thing to me. In terms of what you care about, I used to be a professional touring musician. I was traveling all over. I played every continental US State but we would come home and I’d have to figure out how to make money.
I didn’t want to work an $8 an hour job. Not that there’s anything wrong with that, but when you have a month or two to make some money and pay the bills, then you’re going to not be able to work for three months because you’re traveling. I needed to make good money. I got into sales. I read every sales thing. I watched every sales training and psychology and all this stuff.
I got pretty good at it. We’d make good money. We’d go back on the road and come back. After seven years, I got tired. I just got tired of doing that. I wanted to settle down and have a family. I got into a business. I had somebody pitch me this idea. I jumped into it and started selling vacuums door-to-door.
When was this? What time frame?
This was in 2008, 2009 era. They were $3,000 vacuums. What I found interesting about it was because it was something that so few people would want to do because it sucks. There’s no doubt about it. I think I can take my personality to this and do well with it. When other people were using these sales things that they learned, I was just being a person and I would go into people’s houses and knock on their door.
They’d let me in, which is crazy. I would go in. It’s good that I’m not what I would think I would be. I’d go into the house. I would sit down and be like, “I’m about to tell you about a $3,000 vacuum.” They’d be like, “What?” and nobody would talk about the price until the end.
Then, I go through and be like, ” Just watch what I’m about to do. Let me show you how cool it is. I’m going to clean your room for you for free. I’m going to give you some stuff. At the end, if for some weird reason you changed your mind, cool. If not, that’s cool too.” I would just realize how absurd it was when everybody else was trying to be like, “I’m the sales person and you’re the other person.”
For whatever reason, that just connected with people. People would see how cool it was. At the end, more often than not, people would buy it. Fast forward a little while, I was like, “I can’t work twelve-hour days, six days a week. I’m exhausted. I just don’t want to do that. I want to have kids. I don’t want to be an absentee dad.” I started studying online marketing. I started studying from guys like Pat Flynn and a bunch of other people in that realm.
I started a podcast because I love that it was performance. Fast forward, all these little things connect. A little while later, I have a podcast with John Lee Dumas who has a podcast called Entrepreneurs on Fire. I need to introduce him and he introduces me to Clay Collins, the CEO of Leadpages. Clay hires me to do a podcast for Leadpages.
One day, he gets super sick and has a webinar the next day. He was hosting them all at that point it was still a twenty-person company. He’s like, “Have you ever sold to anybody in a small group?” I said, “Let’s do this.” I had 24 hours to prepare. Twenty-four hours later, I host the webinar. I out convert Clay my first time ever hosting webinar.
He’s like, “You’re doing the webinars from now on.” We have to do that. Since that point, I hosted. I’m not with him anymore but I hosted over a thousand live webinars for them generated over $10 million in revenue. Since then, I’ve gone off on my own. That’s what I do but for a number of clients on my own. It’s been a crazy journey. That’s the kit and caboodle.
There are a couple of things that I took away from that. Number one, I’m going back to your vacuum cleaner days. I don’t think I’ve ever seen a $3,000 vacuum by the way. Here’s a couple of things that I love about that. Number one, you can sell anything to anyone. Tim, you’re awesome in sales, clearly. For anyone else, this goes back into packaging, positioning and pricing your own products. Where on earth has anyone ever seen a $3,000 vacuum?
Only when somebody has knocked on your door.
I want to talk about that real quick because it’s very relevant to online sales. There is something that you talked about that we have been finding works extremely well with our webinars when we’re doing cold traffic promotions and cold traffic sales. You lead with the price and then substantiate everything afterwards versus hiding the price up front. Once people know it’s too expensive, they’ll hate you for it. It’s like, “This is $3,000? Get out of my house.” Do you do that on your webinars?
Can you give me an example of one? Give me the time frame like you do the introduction. How long would it take for you to say, “I’m going to pitch you on this at the end.” What does it look like?
It’s quick. It’s just a few minutes. I know there’s a philosophy for a lot of people. They need to tell their hero’s journey on the webinar first and say, “Here’s where I was and here’s where I am now. I’m going to show you how to do that.” I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that, but I’ve found that my style is a little bit different. I want to build authority quickly.
I usually do that by just saying, “Here’s the results that I’ve gotten. By the way, I’m also a big comic book nerd and voice actor. I’m married. I’ve got two kids.” It’s just silly stuff. I build authority quickly. People don’t want to spend a ton of time hearing my story. I get to it pretty quickly. It’s usually within five minutes at most. I justify why I’m going to tell people the price and give them the offer. I don’t even just tell them the price. I do a whole offer upfront.
What I do is I’ve coined this term, offerings ID. This is a true story. I started asking people after webinars. I would reach out to people that hadn’t attended the webinars. I would say, “What’s one thing that you hate about webinars?” There was this huge, disproportionate number of people.
90% of people would say they hated getting on a webinar when they would spend 45 minutes not knowing what the offer was going to be. Sometimes not even knowing what the person was selling, but feeling they were being sold. They were always thinking, “What’s the offer going to be? How much is it going to be? Am I going to be able to afford it? Is it even going to be something I should think?”
They would spend all their time focusing on that instead of focusing on whatever the content was. We know that the content is what leads them to the sale in the first place. They weren’t focusing on the content. They were freaking out about the price, product and offer. I said, “What if we just knock out this offerings ID upfront just like what I did with the vacuum sales?” I made people go nuts with the price, “$3,000, never going to do that.” Then I could say, “You’re right. You’re probably never going to buy it. Let’s just get into this other stuff so that I can show you how I can help you.
To backtrack, about five minutes in, what I would say is, “Now, I’m going to do something weird, something you might not have seen on other webinars. I’m going to let you know about the offer right up front. I’m going to tell you the product, price, bonuses and everything. I’ll tell you how it works upfront so that you don’t have to spend the whole webinar worrying if it’s right for you or if you can afford it or whatever.
I want to get that out of the way upfront so that now I can get into the content.” Then, I would do the offer. I don’t go through every module of the training course for every feature of the product. I’ll say, “Here’s the deal.” Let’s say we’re talking about Leadpages. I would say Leadpages is the number one landing page builder on the market.
I’d talk about just a couple of things why Leadpages was great. Then I would say, “There are a couple of different plans. The one I’m going to recommend is the Pro-Plan. It’s $577 a year. It comes with X, Y and Z. Here are the bonuses that you get when you sign up before the webinar ends, bonuses, then I would tell them the link to go to.
I would tell them they had to buy it before the webinar ends. At the end of the offer, I’d be like, “Everybody, you can breathe a sigh of relief. You know the offer. If it’s good for you, you can sign up now or later on in the webinar. It’s all cool. What I really want you to do is dive into the content with me, focus on the content and don’t worry about having to buy anything right now. We’ll get to that again later.”
I would see people in the questions box in GoToWebinar or in the chat box in WebinarNinja and they’re going, “That’s so great. I feel so much relief right now.” People loved hearing the offer upfront. It just made people relaxed so much. It was the same thing that was happening in the houses when I was selling vacuums. They were like, “That’s crazy. I’m never going to buy. Remember, I’m never going to buy,” then at the end, they would always buy. It was the weirdest thing.
Giving the offer upfront reduces that offer anxiety, which I love. You’ve got to coin it and create something out of that, how to eliminate offer anxiety? We will do the full offer. I’ll tell them that there’s an offer at the end. I’ll tell them just the name of it. I don’t go into the detail, but it does help reduce that offer anxiety a little bit. From a presenter standpoint, I remember when I was first giving presentations, I was following a script that was once we got into the pitch, it took us 25 to 30 minutes to even reveal the price.
We would get people to be, “Just tell me the price.” We always thought that was a good thing. I didn’t know how to fix it. We’re making sales. I’m like, “Whatever. I’m not going to mess with it.” People know you’re going to be pitching something. They know you’ve got to be doing this as a business. You spent money on paid ads. They’re not stupid. You can’t insult your customer’s intelligence. It’s the worst way to start a relationship with your audience.
I lot of that came from me. I would be on a webinar being like, “Will you just tell me?” Especially early on in my business, I want to know if I can afford it. I wanted to know if it was something I was going to be able to buy. If not, that’s fine. At least I would still go, “Joel Gibbs, great training,” and later on, down the road when I’m ready, I’m going to go to Joel and buy his thing because he was upfront honest.
I’m always wondering how can we capture the most bang for your buck with social currency? Even if you reveal the price upfront and somebody can’t afford it, I would then try and leverage that to be like, “There we go. You know the price. Now, I’m going to deliver the content. Let me prove to you that this content is awesome. I really want to build this relationship. Hopefully down the road, you buy again.”
Then I would frame it at that at the end to be like, “If you love this content, even if you’re not going to buy it, I would really appreciate if you share this with your audience or whatever.” Do some share because there’s so much value in social currency. My good friend, Adam Linkenauger, coined that and he’s launching something called Social Currency, which is leveraging these nonbuyers and still getting money from them.
A lot of times, I’ll do a webinar training. One of my clients which is WebinarNinja. We do a training on how to post your first webinar. It’s 101-level stuff. One of the things that I find is that when I tell people that I give the offer upfront, they’re like, “I’ve never done a webinar. I’ve done five webinars. I don’t know if I feel comfortable giving the offer upfront.” What I’ll tell them is, “That’s okay. Give them the price upfront.” You don’t even have to tell them what the product is or does. If it’s an info course, you don’t have to tell them what’s in the course. If it’s software, you don’t have to tell them what the software does.
You can just say, “At the end, I’m going to give you some awesome bonuses. I’ve got this offer for my product. My product is called X, Y, and Z. It costs $19.97. Don’t freak out about it. Let’s get into the content. I just wanted to tell you upfront so that you can go right now in your head, “I don’t have$2,000. I’m not going to do it or I do and I’ll consider down the road or whatever’.”
When you do that at the end, beyond the fact that people are like, “He’s hiding the price.” When you do it at the end, what ends up happening is you build up all this goodwill. You give them tons of great content. You lead them to the sale, if you’ve done a good job with the webinar, everything in the content was good and they go, “If this content is that good, then the product has to be amazing.” Then you go, “It’s $2,000.” People go, “$2,000, that’s so much money.”
All they can think about through your whole pitch is like, “$2,000, oh my God.” When you say it upfront, they have the whole webinar where they’ve put $2,000 a side. It’s like, “Content, content, awesome, awesome, awesome. What am I getting for $2,000?” All of a sudden, they’re focused on the content and the product itself. It just totally moves the conversation away from $2,000 as opposed to sticker shock and I have ten minutes to get over that sticker shock. Instead, I have an hour to get over it.
You’d have a longer opportunity where you’ve presented the offer to them. There’s no reason why I shouldn’t be doing this. I want to talk about this technique that I hate using the word hack. Let’s talk about the technique that you shared with me before we jumped on this. How did you 4X your conversions? I’ve never split tested an actual webinar. I’ve done unofficial split tests on a webinar, but you did with two huge audiences, tell that story and tell the results.
I have this theory. For a long time ever since probably webinar number two, I’ve been answering questions throughout the entire webinar. That’s just revealing the secret upfront. I answered questions throughout the whole webinar. I don’t wait until the Q&A to answer questions. I had just done it because I thought this is a better experience.
If I’m on a webinar and I have a question about something that’s being talked about, I want that question answered as quickly as possible. I started doing that. It’s not easy doing it with a ton of people, but I’d been doing that ever since. I wanted to test that theory. I took an opportunity where we had a huge affiliate partner that was promoting the webinar. This person picked two dates. We would always have a Wednesday and Thursday. It was the same time both days.
The same promotion, the same webinar registration page. Everything was the same. We tried to keep it as clean a split test as possible. On day one, I didn’t answer questions until the Q&A. It was just content all the way through. This person was answering some questions in the questions box or whatever, but I didn’t answer questions in my presentation.
The next day, I answered questions throughout the entire webinar. We quadrupled our sales on the second webinar. By the way, they were both maxed out. No more people could join. It was GoToWebinar and it was the limit. We had a thousand people on live on both webinar. Just absolute crazy increase in revenue. I have found that there are very few situations where that’s not possible.
The only time that I think it’s harder to answer questions throughout the content is if the webinar is a story from start to finish. The tactics aren’t there, but you need to get the whole picture of the story. Asking a question doesn’t make sense because the story’s going to answer the question later. There are some webinars like that and that’s hard to do. I have personally never hosted a webinar where I couldn’t answer questions throughout the content.
How many times would you stop to allow for questions to be answered when you do this versus doing it at the end?
For the first hundred webinars, it was just whenever. I’m in the middle of a sentence and a good question would pop up. If somebody wanted to know, I would go answer that question. I found that super distracting. That takes away big time from your flow.
That was my objection. In my mind that’s how I would see it because I would tell all my clients, “Do I answer questions? No, stay until the end.”
That makes perfect sense. What I started doing after a little while is when I would build my deck, I would in my brain be marking off opportunities to stop and answer some questions. A lot of times my webinars are step one, part one, piece one, whatever, tactic one, two, three, four. I’ll break it down like that. I found it’s just so much easier to digest as an attendee. What I would do is in step one, tactic one, thing one, I would be into it. I would explain something and then it would be this is a point where probably if I’m attending I’ve got questions.
I would stop and I’d be like, “While I’m here, blah, blah has a question, blah, blah.” I’m picky about what questions I answer. I try to answer all of them, but when you’ve got a thousand people on a webinar, it’s not happening. I try to strategically answer questions. I tell people upfront to ask questions throughout the entire webinar. I’m going to try my best to answer them, but please note I will not answer a question that’s not relevant to the topic of the content we’re talking about at that point in the webinar. I’ll save that until the end.
If I would be talking about list-building and somebody would have a question about how to optimize their sales page or something, I wouldn’t answer that because that would completely take away from what we’re talking about. If I’m talking about list building and somebody’s like, “What’s the best lead magnet? Great. I’m so glad you asked.”
Then, I’m providing value-based on what we’re talking about then. It just always seemed to enhance the value, increase the engagement, increase the conversion rate and people would stay longer than ever before. I’m seeing right now on average that 95% of the people that show up at the start of the webinar, will stay for 75 minutes or longer which is insane.
How long are your webinars? About 90 minutes usually?
They’re 90 minutes on average. I’m finding now that more of my webinars are trending towards 60 minutes. I prefer longer webinars myself. I’m finding that with some of the clients I’m working with, 60 minutes is more than enough. It depends on the client and the topic. A lot of people will be like, “Should I do 60 minutes? Should I do 90? Should I do two hours?” It just depends on what you’re talking about and how involved it is. If you’re speaking to a more 101 level audience, shorter is sometimes better. This is not always the case.
In Leadpages, we had a good mix. More of the people we were talking to are 101 level, but we were doing a 90-minute webinar. I have another client we were talking about earlier who that audience is very much not one 101 level. They’re much more advanced and yet that webinar is 60 minutes. It comes down to the content and topic itself and what does it mean.
What we’re finding is shorter is almost always better in terms of conversions. I’m interested to hear you answer on this. I’ll finish my thought here. I always ramble on and I’ve got copywriters and editors whose job is to chop all my stuff in half because it’s still more effective. A lot of times, I think when people register for a webinar, they naturally blocked out an hour. It’s a meeting. It’s an event. It’s an hour.
Even though they could probably stay a little bit longer between 60 to 90 minutes, that’s what we’re seeing as the sweet spot too. We had one webinar that was two hours because it had a 30 to 45 minutes pitch with it. It’s still converted every minute. We made a ton of money off of it. I look back on it and I’m just like, “How did that work?” It did.
There are two questions that I’m anxious to hear your answers on. Number one is positioning as a webinar host for other people’s products. Take me back to when Clay reached out to you and he was like, “Got a webinar tomorrow.” How did you position yourself? What’s the secret behind that?
One of the things to note is that all of my clients, but one is software companies which is much easier to do. It’s way easier to be like, “I’m a member of the team at this company.” A lot of my friends have personal brands. They have teams and their teams can write content and do all sorts of stuff, but it would be weird. For example Pat Flynn, it would be tougher to say, “I’m Tim Paige, the whatever webinar guy for Pat Flynn.” They’ll be like, “What? Pat’s not doing this content.” Not Impossible.
I do have one client who is a personal brand. I’m hosting this person’s webinars, but it’s tougher to do. What I often will do is when I’m presenting, if there’s a story that’s relevant to the brand that was often about the founder’s story, I never try to turn it into my story. I think that is so disingenuous. It completely destroys your relationship. I’m 100% like, “I will not tell something that’s not true. I’m not going on a webinar and do that.”
What I do is, it’s our team story. I’ll tell a story and be like, “When we were doing this, which is true, we as a collective company, we’re doing this thing, the founder of the company was the person doing it, but it’s our company.” That’s how I presented all the stories. If I’m talking about Leadpages, “I’ve heard Clay tell the story of blah, blah, blah.” It was always presented like that. People are always cool with that because if we’re going to have somebody training us from some large company, it’s not going to be the CEO of that company. That’s fine.
That’s been the positioning for me so far. I’ve just had this challenge. We’re starting a new webinar with one my clients and we had that challenge. We’re like, “So much of this comes from what you personally have done for your brand that we have to change everything to be what we’ve done and what he has done.” So far, we’ve found it’s actually converting great. We’re seeing 38% conversion rate for that one.
What are the average price points that you sell on these webinars? What do they range from?
My lowest price point is $397, which is a little low for webinars. I find that’s a tougher one, but we’re getting great results. I’m not messing with that. I think my highest price point is $2,000.
Normally cold traffic to the webinar?
I’d say it’s 70% cold traffic, 30% retargeting and that kind of thing but mostly cold traffic.
You’ve just debunked a major myth that people have. I mostly do a ton in the information marketing space where there’s this mystical number of $997. Everyone is like, “I want a $997 course. I want an evergreen webinar. I want to sell it.” I’m like, “Pump the brakes. Let’s just chill out for a little bit.” You can sell $2,000 from cold traffic webinars.
All day long. My client that we’re doing an information product that’s personal branding, we’re doing a $1,497 product right now and that’s been the most successful one. We’ve tested a bunch of different price points but $1,497 is the one that’s working the best. I feel like so much of the time it’s so arbitrary. You mentioned the $997 is a magical price point, but what’s that getting somebody?
If you can show somebody some ridiculous result from it, then what’s wrong with $1,997? What’s wrong with $5,000? I have one client that’s selling a $5,000 product on their webinar. I created their webinar. I’m not hosting it because it’s a personal brand. I just built the webinar for them selling a $5,000 product. They’re not pitching it directly on the webinar. They’re pitching a consult and then getting on the call but still, you can sell most things from webinar.
I’ll give one other example. I went to an event that’s interesting. It was a webinar event that ON24 puts on called Webinar World. It’s a webinar platform, but it’s a real enterprise level webinar. They charge $10,000. It’s high-end. Most of the people that were at this event were from Microsoft and these big, massive enterprise companies. That world is entirely different from the world we live in. They have no idea how to pitch on a webinar.
All of it is content, “If you’d like to hear more about our stuff, we’ll schedule.” They have no idea how to pitch. I found it interesting that they’re selling these massive enterprise solutions, $30,000 a year plus really high-end stuff on webinars. What they’re doing is they’re getting marketing qualified leads from their webinars and then getting them to the sales reps and doing it that way. When people are like, “I don’t know, $2,000 products don’t sell.” I’m like, “What?” You might have to get creative.
We have a mutual friend, somebody who actually I think was the first person who connect us, he right now is pitching a much more expensive product. He’s not selling it directly on webinar. He’s pitching the application where people will apply and then they get on the phone with him and then he sells his product. It’s awesome. The webinar that he’s running is amazing. It’s so good.
When we go application style, we always just go straight automated. You could do live if you want. You build webinars for your clients. Do you write them for them?
Do you script?
No. I’ve never used a script. I don’t have any fundamental issue with a script. For my style, reading from a script just doesn’t work for me. I like to just go with the flow.
I think you’re right. It’s very performance-based. My background is in engineering, I need to read from a script, but I don’t have a difficult time with voice inflections. I can make it sound like I’m not reading from a script, but I’m a very step-by-step brain.
It’s great for your clients because when you’re building a webinar for somebody else to host, having a script so that you can put your thoughts on things into that for them to assimilate is great. I’ve had a few people that have come to me asking me, “I need to host my webinars, but will you build it for me? I want a script. I won’t do it. I don’t want to write a script because I don’t think that I’d be serving somebody, me personally, because I don’t write scripts for my own webinars. If I was to do that for somebody else, I will be experimenting when you’re giving me a ton of money to do it. I’d rather not experiment on your dime. I don’t feel comfortable doing that. I have a weird style.
I have a friend who when he writes his webinars, his webinars are nine slides. That’s it. He has nine slides and he’ll go step one in the webinar. There are three bullet points. He’ll go art bullet point one and then he’ll just talk about it. He just talks and here’s my content from bullet point one, then bullet point two, then bullet point three.
He’s got 10,000 customers paying on a monthly recurring basis for his software product. That’s how he built almost all of those customers. That’s how he got almost all of them. My slide decks were 140 slides. I go bonkers with slides. That works for him. My point in all of that is, I don’t script, but I’m also a weird person. I build pretty much most things I’m going to say on a slide in the form of like a picture or at least a phrase that will trigger my brain to say something.
We have insanely long slide decks for you. That’s how I was trained. That’s how I was brought into it. It would be difficult for me to create a nine-slide presentation. I wouldn’t ever feel comfortable delivering that.
The other problem that I have, that I would just be blabbering on forever. I’d get into a slide and I’ll be like, “Three bullet points. I need to go off the top of my head.” I would go nuts. My webinars will be three hours long.
For me, the reason why I script is because I want to make sure I’m controlling the conversation because I can’t see my audience. It’s not like we’re delivering this in a library. I can’t see their feedback. I want to make sure that everything I say is strategic and it makes sense. Scripting, it takes us a long time because we go through and now we have to do edits and reviews. We’re always tweaking our process. When we write webinars for other people, we don’t want any interpretation when we hand it off to them.
If you were writing a webinar for yourself for a product that you were going to promote, would you script it for yourself?
I would. I am running weekly live webinars for myself, my own program. I’ve got my own webinar and it is scripted. We just ran a second live one and it did okay. It was a very small audience, just a segment of my internal list. I script it so I stay on point because if there’s no script there, I will go all over the place and then I’ll start stuttering.
You can notice when I go off-script and when I stay on-script because my brain is just all over the place. I do it just to keep myself on track. You don’t script your presentations. We’re going back to the offer because this is just completely fascinating to me. Offers are so important. In my opinion, they are the most important part of your entire presentation. When you put the offer in right away, you eliminate that fear, and that anxiety.
The trust level with you, the presenter, and whoever the company is that you represent, it goes up tremendously. I always tell my clients, “You cannot insult your customer’s intelligence, especially this is a cold traffic webinar because most people aren’t going to buy on the webinar. They’re going to come back later onto the webinar or they’re going to come back and buy later. Do not ruin that relationship.” When you go into your pitch now, how long is your pitch? How does it differ from a normal style offer creation?
I use the ending pitch towards the end of the webinar as an opportunity to expand because a lot of the time it’s software. If it’s not something that’s a ubiquitous software like Leadpages, most people that are in marketing at least have a sense of what Leadpages is. If it’s something that’s a little bit different. A tool that’s maybe newer, they might not have ever heard of it. I’m making my pitch at the beginning.
People think, “This is my time to buy,” but they’re like, “What the heck is this software?” If I go, “It does this, this, and this.” They’re like, “Okay.” You know they’re not going to buy yet. Then, throughout the webinar I am referencing as I go back to it’s like, “By the way, this software is going to make this easier to do because of X, Y and Z. I just told you how to do this thing, but if you want to do it easily, this software will do it for you. Remember, I offered you that bonus.” Then I go onto the next thing.
My pitch is just baked into the content as I go. That works the same way for info stuff as well. If you’re doing a piece number one and I’m going, “Step one, let’s do this. Here’s why you do it. Here’s the pieces of doing it. Remember, my course is going to make it even easier because I’m going to go even deeper and we’ll hold your hand, but let’s get to that later at step two.” To answer your question more clearly, when I get to the end, my pitches are a little bit longer then. In the beginning, it’s probably three to five minutes. In the end, it’s more like ten minutes.
That’s really short.
The reason it’s short is especially with software, I’m demoing software within the content because I’m saying here’s what to do, here’s the specifics of why we’re doing it, and then here’s how to do it using this software. With software, it’s a lot easier to bake it into it so that then by the end, I’m not going to go do a demo because I’ve demoed it as we go.
Whereas with information, you need to tell them more. Here’s what’s in the course, here are the modules. I think the information product that we’re doing now is probably a fifteen-minute-long pitch at the end. It’s still shorter than a lot. I have a structure for it. I’ll share the structure. I don’t talk about this a lot. I have a structure specifically when it comes to the offer.
There’s a transition. The transition is, I’m not redefining the problem. I’m not revisiting all the content. A lot of people spend ten to fifteen minutes revisiting that content. I get the philosophy why and it can work but what I do is I say, “At the beginning of the webinar, I told you about the offer. I told you that I wouldn’t leave you without the opportunity to get more help from me. I want to make good on that promise. Let’s talk again about what you’re going to get.”
Let’s say it’s an information product and let’s say I’m talking about a webinar course that I have or something. I would say, “I want to introduce you to Webinar Power Up or whatever. I want to introduce you to my webinar course. What we’re going to do is, in Webinar Power Up, we’re going to talk about X, Y and Z. I’m going to go deep into those things. The insights that I’ve found from over 1100 webinars that I’ve personally hosted that have generated over $10,000,000 in revenue. I’m going to share with you the specific steps of each piece of the webinars, so when you go build your webinar and host your webinar you’ll feel completely confident to do it.
Webinar Power Up is $1,997 or whatever the heck the price is and because I want to hook it up, here are the bonuses. Then, I’m selling the bonuses. Bonus one is this. I’m going to go in depth on that. Bonus two is this, I’m going to go in depth on that. Bonus three is this. You only get the bonuses when you buy it before the webinar. Let me show you what you need to do to get it. I’m going to click on the buttons, if there are buttons. If there’s a link, I go to the link. I fill out the form with them.
I showed them exactly what to do right there. I haven’t done an in-depth walkthrough with my product yet because the next thing I do is I go, “All right, let’s get into some Q&A.” I start my Q&A with two to three questions that are buying questions and 90% of the time, I’m getting the same buying questions. We know what they are. We know what the questions are going to be. I’ll go right to the first biggest objection.
With Leadpages, the big question or objection was always, “Can I use this with more than one website?” A lot of tools are specific. You can only use it on one website. Leadpages’ big selling point was you could use it on unlimited websites, unlimited domains and unlimited businesses. I’d be like, “So and so wanted you to know that you can use this with more than one website. We have this unlimited,” and right now that will answer that.
Then I do two more buying questions. Then I would go to two to three non-buying questions that were just based on the content. They’d ask, “In step two, you talked about this. How would I do this for whatever?” I would answer that. Then, I go into a few more buying questions and the first buying question, I go back into is, “Can you tell me more about your program? Can you tell me more about your software, your product?” That’s when I would go deep. That’s the deep dive on the product where I go, “Module one, we’re going to do blah blah blah.”
What happens is when people have questions, they have these objections at the end. They have all these questions and if you can answer those questions, they’re going to be ready to buy. If I spend too long pitching, they feel like their question isn’t going to be answered so they drop off. You lose that person that might’ve bought. I know that we can get them in the follow-up sequence.
We’re going to do a better job if we can get them live. I do it right then and there. I’d get to the Q&A as quickly as I can. I answer those buying questions. I answer the content questions and then, I go deep dive. For me, I’ve found that if you use your Q&A as an opportunity to overcome objections, I’ve found that’s the magic that closes those last-minute sales.
I love short offers. We’re testing a new offer structure internally that has been working very well. We specifically positioned the objections within the content of the webinar. We conquer them there, but we still take too long. I know we take too long to get to the actual reveal. Internally, I’ve been just stuck. How can we shorten this without reducing our effectiveness on the webinar? This was really good. Two webinar experts riffing and sharing our knowledge. Do you do anything with the funnel?
I don’t. I’ve got a really specific and I’m sure you do too. I’m a huge fan of stacking the best of the best with the best of the best instead of generalists. I can build a funnel. It will be decent. It will convert pretty well. I know I’m not the best of the best. I’d rather you get the best of the best person who’s going to run your ads instead of your automation and do all that stuff. Get a ton of great people on the webinar and I will knock them down for you. I know that when it comes to all that stuff, I’m decent, but I’m not the best.
Last question, what’s the highest conversion rate that you’ve ever had live on a webinar and what was the price point? You don’t have to reveal the product but name your golden goose.
That was reasonable because I have had a webinar that a partner promoted that there were seven people on and six of them bought, but that doesn’t really count. In terms of a reasonable amount of people on a webinar, it was 50%. Which is I feel like it’s not all that impressive of a number, but 50% is pretty good. There were 400 something people on the webinar.
You have 200 people buy.
This is the best part because I’ve told this story a couple times. Right over here, I have a booth. I’m a voice actor as well. I do all my recording in my soundproof booth over here, but we were in the middle of building it. I couldn’t do webinars in here. I had to do it in my walk-in closet. For whatever reason I’m doing this webinar, there are always people on it. Four minutes in, hiccups hit. Every four words, I’d have bad hiccups. Four minutes into a 90-minutes webinar and I’m dying. I waited for five minutes. I keep doing the presentation, “It’s going to go away.”
It was brutal. After five minutes I was like, “I’ve got to call this out.” I go, “You might have noticed I’ve got nasty hiccups right now. Nothing I can do about it. You’re not here to scare me, so there’s nothing I can do to get rid of these hiccups. If it’s too annoying, I totally get it. You want to drop off. That’s fine. We’ll get you on another webinar at some point. If you stick around, the content is going to be worth hearing me hiccup every few seconds.”
What ended up happening was almost nobody dropped off. There was a hashtag, #TimsHiccupWebinar or something that was going around. It was this ridiculous thing. We ended up converting at 50%. Whether it was because of sympathy or just people were like, “This guy is so real and he’s plowing through this.” It was unbelievable but no question, it is the highest converting webinars I’ve ever had. I had the hiccups. I had the flu. I had strep throat. Those were the highest converting webinars I ever had. When people are like, “You’re a voice actor. You know how to do.” I’m like, “The best webinars ever sounded like garbage.” I think it’s just people want to connect with a real person and that’s it.
What was the price point of the offer at 50%?
It was $577 a year. It was recurring. A reasonable thing and I thought it was awesome.
We talked about how you basically transferred your $3,000 door-to-door vacuum sales techniques to putting the offer upfront than substantiating that with the value, eliminating the offer anxiety. You’ve got to coin that, that’s got to be a lead magnet for you. We talked about how you 4X conversions with your Q&A technique.
We talked about how you structure the offers and the timeframe for how you position your webinars. You don’t script any which is fascinating. This works incredibly well for software, which is awesome. We’ve done a couple of software webinars, but it’s been always tied into info products. Do you ever sell it just flat software on webinars? That’s what Leadpages was. It was just software.
Most of my stuff is just software. Although you heard about the two webinars that I had hosted where we gave the information. We were selling the information because the information was useful without the software, but almost required having the software and so people would buy the software to get the information for free. We did that with Leadpages a couple of times. It was incredibly successful, but I hated the webinar itself. I did not like hosting it, so we did it. We’ve got some results and then we scrapped it because I don’t want to do a webinar I hate especially over and over.
Where can people find out more information about you? Where can they go sign up to your list and connect with you?
My website is TimPaigeWebinars.com. I’m working on my own little webinar training only because of two things. One, I’ve never personally launched an information product and I want to do it just to get the experience of personally launching one for myself. There are a lot of people that are like, “Can you help me with my webinars?” but they can’t afford to hire me to do it and I’d like to help them too. I am building my own and it’s going to be at WebinarPowerUp.com. I’m going to go and put my lead magnet up there. It’s my webinar creation checklist. It’s just a simple checklist but just to keep you on track when you’re building your webinar.
From two upstate New Yorkers, two webinar hosts, two webinar pros, two webinar experts, hopefully you’ve got some value out of this. I’ve got a ton of value and I always love talking to people who are super smart in this space. Tim, we’ve got to do something else together. There’s too much potential up here in upstate New York.
We definitely have to. Keep the podcast up. It’s great. It’s something that’s needed. Not enough people are sharing this wisdom. Keep it up.
Thank you for tuning in. We’ve got more content coming up. Go check out Tim’s stuff and we’ll see you next time. Take care.
Thanks so much for being here. We hope you enjoyed our episode and we look forward to giving you the next one. You can also follow and watch the behind the scenes look at how I’m personal launching a brand new six and seven-figure product from scratch at SoldWithWebinars.com/TV. If you’d like to come hang out with other fellow experts, join our Facebook group at SoldWithWebinars.com/Experts. Join us next time and I’ll see you there.
About Tim Paige
Hosting over 1,000 live webinars for some of the most successful SaaS startups, Tim Paige is a certified webinar rockstar. His career in creating and hosting high-converting webinars has brought in a total of over $12 million in revenue.
Tim has extensive experience in helping SaaS companies, service providers, and information marketers create and market highly successful webinar channels. His client list features fast-growing startups that have flown to new heights, including Leadpages, Social Media Examiner, Smart Marketer, Zipify, Drip, FunnelDash, Needls, and Course Cats — to name a few.
Tim’s trademark is his honest, transparent, and engaging style. Those who attend his webinars never leave without actionable information they can use to solve their problems, even if they don’t make a purchase during his online trainings.