How to Create and Sell $5.6MM In Under 15 Minutes from a Webinar w/ Jon Tarr | #032
Jon Tarr wrote a $5.6 million-dollar webinar 15 minutes before go time. No gimmicks. No hype. No sleazy marketing tactics. He did it ethically and — might we add — successfully. Was it flawless? No. But that just proves how overrated perfection is.
Hit the right points, say the right things, be transparent and authentic. Jon shows you how to do it all in this episode.
I have for our interview the legendary Jon Tarr, who has done some incredible things with webinars. What I really liked about this interview was it helped eliminate the notion that most people believe they have to spend so much time working on their webinar. Our interview with Jon just showed us that your webinar does not need to be perfect. In fact, Jon built a $5.5 million webinar and he launched it fifteen minutes before he was scheduled to go live. He shares all of his details for how he crafts his salesmanship with his webinars and there’s a lot to learn in this episode. Webinars, if we allow it, can completely cripple us. They can be a huge burden. I’m excited to share this episode with you because I want you to understand it is completely not the case.
How to Create and Sell $5.6MM In Under 15 Minutes from a Webinar w/ Jon Tarr
Jon, I’m pumped to have this conversation. Welcome to the show.
Thanks for having me. I’m super excited about chatting with you. It would be fun. Ask me anything, I’m an open book.
I am the perpetual student on this. I’m just leading the questions. I’ve got a lot to learn on this because I have never done a $7,000 direct to sale webinar and I’ve never written a webinar fifteen minutes before it went live. I’m going to have a lot of fun. I know my audience is going to have a lot of fun. Let’s get started. Just give us a quick two-minute background about who you are, the man, the myth, the legend.
The short version is I’m a serial entrepreneur. I’ve been an entrepreneur for a really long time. I’ve also been in corporate America too. I’ve had some pretty unique experiences. I always like to tell people that ask about me, I’m super weird. I’m weird because my parents were weird. My dad was a car dealer. He was an entrepreneur. My mom was an accountant. I grew up with this guy who could sell anything to anybody and then I grew up with a mom who was like, “This doesn’t reconcile the $5. Where’s my $5?” You talk about Rich Dad, Poor Dad, I had entrepreneur dad and accountant mom. It served me really well because I’m a numbers guy, but on top of that, I can sell. I’ve just been using those abilities in direct response marketing for quite some time on the entrepreneurial side.
When was the first time you got into online marketing and digital marketing?
Shout out to Frank Kern, I bought Mass Control. I was in real estate, made a lot of money in real estate, and then lost it all when the market crashed. That was a bummer. I’ve always been a direct response marketing guy. Any business that I’d been in, whether it was auto business which I was in for a long time or real estate, I use direct response marketing. I’d heard about internet marketing and I wanted to get in because I thought, in real estate you’ve got to have all your chips on the table all the time. I’m like, “I don’t really feel comfortable with that anymore.” I bought Mass Control and I started watching it and I’m like, “What the hell was a sales letter versus an opt-in page?” I didn’t have any idea about anything, but that’s how I started in the direct response phase. I started working in direct response and to make a long story short, I ended up going to work for Idea Incubator, Ryan Deiss and Perry Belcher. That’s when some light bulbs went off for me. My idea was I could go work for these guys. I’m an entrepreneur and I’ve always made a lot of money, but I wanted to go work for these guys so that I could learn what they did and then also get on the inside of the industry. I thought, “That will really help me.” That’s exactly what happened. Light bulbs started going off when I worked for those guys and I saw a lot of things that they did and learned a lot there.
Real estate entrepreneur turned into direct response background, dialing that in, applying it to online marketing strategies, and ultimately using that to build your audience. I know from talking with you that aside from being an awesome conversion guy, you’ve got the blend of building massive audiences and converting them. When you get those two put together, you’re licensed to print, just for lack of a better word, a shit ton of money. Usually people will specialize in one or the other and when you can meld both of them, that’s when you light the world on fire.
I’ve been pretty fortunate to be able to build big audiences. I always tell people without an audience, nothing is possible. With an audience, everything works. You have a big audience and you’re like, “I’m going to throw this offer out there and somebody’s going to buy it.” The real key is to be able to build a big audience.
We’ve got two main things that we want to talk about. Let’s figure out when did you discover webinars? When was this whole idea of like, “I can sell one-to-many.” Tell me about how you jumped into the world of webinars?
With internet marketing, the thing I really dug about it is because I’m a salesperson and I was always used to selling one-to-one. When I was at Idea Incubator, I saw some different people that were doing webinars. I think anybody that sells info products who was probably an info product junkie, that was me. I bought everything. If you sold it, I bought it. I bought it all. I still do. I still buy everything, because I really enjoy to go through it and see the marketing side. I’d seen webinars before, but I was rolling out a new program. It’s a high ticket program, and I was doing really well on the CPA side. I wanted to create an offer and a webinar that just fit for me really well. Now, it’s different because I could write copy, but at that time, I couldn’t write copy. All I could do was talk to somebody. A webinar really fit with what I wanted to do there. I’m like, “I’ll do a webinar to your list,” and that’s how it started. I had one guy who said, “Yes, I’ll promote your offer,” and that’s how I got started.
When was that? Which product was that?
That was with Facebook Traffic Jam. That was in 2013.
This is when you first figured out that, “We’re going to try this webinar thing.“ You’ve got an affiliate who said, “I’m going to drive traffic to it. I think this offer is going to work to my audience.” You talked about your three-phase launch strategy. Not that we’re going to get too far off topic, but I think it’s really important for people to understand. I want to make sure to get this right. Phase one was create the offer, phase two was then promote and scale it to affiliates and JVs, and phase three was cold traffic. Did I get the right?
That’s how I do it all the time.
JVs and affiliates, what you’re using that for is to help get cashflow in the door. It’s expensive, but it’s not risk expensive. It’s going to cost you a lot to pay for that after you make the sale.
If you have a backend, it’s good traffic. It does two things. When you roll out something to your own audience, I call it ground zero. When I run media, I would call it ground zero. If you can’t convert there, it’s not going to convert. If your offer doesn’t work to your own audience, it’s not going to work. Let’s say I’m going to JV traffic and now, if Joel tells everybody how great I am and my offer doesn’t work there, it’s probably not going to work to phase three which is cold traffic. Really what I’m doing is I always look at what something’s going to make me. My dad used to say, “You get paid in two ways, money and education.” That phase two is education. Now, if I can convert to Joel’s audience, that means I have a much better chance of converting to completely cold traffic. It’s an educational process all the way down when I launch an offer to know that it’s going to convert.
Let’s get back on track, we’re in 2013. You’ve got Facebook Traffic Jam. You’ve got an affiliate who wants to promote it. You wrote this webinar and this is the first webinar that you ever did. You wrote this webinar fifteen minutes before you went live. What was the overall sales of this webinar that you wrote fifteen minutes before, you sold 800 people into a $7,000 price point?
$7,000 or $9,000 on the payments for the monthly.
It’s $7,000 or $9,000, so that’s over $5.6 million in revenue generated from a webinar you wrote fifteen minutes before it launched live.
That doesn’t include all the non-linear revenue that I made off that audience and still making off that audience. It was significant.
I know that a lot of people are sitting and they’re like, “I know I want to do a webinar but they’ve got the mental hurdles and the writer’s block of what on Earth am I supposed to say? What’s my introduction? What’s my content? What’s my close?” You did it in fifteen minutes. What was going through your mind? How did you do it?
Two things that I think that people need to understand. When I was getting into sales and I told you my dad owned a car dealership, he made a lot of money. I was like, “Dad, how do you do it? How do you make a lot of money?” He’s like, “Jon, it’s like stealing.” It’s what he said and he meant it. My dad loved his customers and he said, “Somebody comes on the lot and they’re you’re age, I’d talk to him like I would you and I’d try to help him like I would you. If they come on the lot and they’re my mother’s age, I’d talk to him like I would my mom. If they come on the lot and they’re my age, I’d talk to them like I would my brother and sister.” I think the first thing is just talk to people like they’re people, because that’s what they are. That’s the first thing. If you add that with, “Nobody cares about you.” They don’t care about you. You don’t have to get all weirded out that somebody cares about you because they don’t. They care about what you can do for them. That’s all anybody cares about.
If you go on a webinar and you treat people really nice and you show them how you can help them solve a problem, they’re going to buy your stuff. That’s how I always start with a webinar. That’s what was going through my mind is how I can illustrate? I’ve got people coming on this webinar and at the time they wanted to know how to make money from Facebook traffic and I was really good at that. Let me show them how they can do that and that’s what I did. That’s what I recommend people do is to talk to people like people and then understand it’s about them. It’s not about you. Nobody cares about you. My intros are not about me. Nobody cares about me. Everybody cares about what’s in it for them. That’s how I try to approach all of my presentations.
How long was this webinar just out of curiosity, ballpark?
It’s 90 minutes.
The call-to-action at the end was pushing to schedule a call or hop on the phone and that’s where you push them into the $7,000 or $9,000 offer.
The first one, it was a strategy session. It’s a good thing because I didn’t know how to set up a cart. I didn’t know any of that stuff. I had to do it that way at the time.
Take me into the content of your webinar because I know there are people with lots of different theories out there. Some people say, “Don’t teach a whole lot on your webinar.“ Some say, “Provide a ton of value and teach a lot, and they’re just going to naturally come and want to spend money with you.“ What is your opinion on the content piece for a sales webinar?
What I do is I give content without giving content. Travis Sago calls it insight or kitchen table logic. In that particular webinar and it’s still online if somebody wants to see it, I don’t sell from it anymore. I still get messages like, “Can I buy this?” I understood the problem in the marketplace. What was going in everybody’s head was paid traffic is expensive and it’s risky. That’s what everybody thinks. What I did is I created a story. It was like, “Paid traffic is not risky if you understand how to do it. In fact, it’s free.” Who wants free traffic, and in fact, it’s not even free, you’re actually going to make a dollar a click. How many clicks do you want? I illustrated that story. I wasn’t really telling them what to do, but I was explaining in the story what was possible. I opened their mind to, “This what I do and if you join me, I’ll show you how to do it.” All of my stuff is about crafting a story.
I think you nailed it on the head right there. At the very end you said, all of your stuff is about crafting a story. Stories sell. They really do. One of the things that we teach is how to sell your product before you ever get to the offer. It’s all about telling stories about what your product can do. It’s not necessarily how your product operates which is what most infomarketers think. They’re like, “I’ve got this six-week course that I’m selling at the end of this webinar.” I need to condense all of that, put it into 45 minutes of content, and then hopefully, they’ll buy at the end and they’re giving demos.
Nobody cares about that. You’re 100% right. They care about the result they’re going to get. You put that story and then you say, “Here’s the result.” That gets people excited because they’re like, “That’s the result I’m looking for.” In fact, I learned this from Perry Belcher and Kevin Nations, the more you actually give them content, the more objections they’re going to have. The more content you give them, the more things they can say because the answer at the end of the webinar is always, “Will it work for me?” I know Joel’s bad-ass. He’s really cool. I know this guy’s awesome, but, “Will it work for me?” That’s the question going on in their mind. You can’t give ammunition to that question. When you simplify it and make it a story and then give them the result, it eliminates that question.
A 100% and it’s easier said than done. If somebody is listening to this interview and they know Jon’s made tens of millions of dollars from webinars because he’s got this great skill of being able to simplify it. The average expert out there, the average webinar marketer out there is not multiple eight-figure webinar guys. While this is simple, it takes practice and it takes skill to be able to not give them objections. When we write webinars, it takes our team a lot of time to dive into what the offer is. What are they really providing? How can we tell these stories that isn’t giving them content? “A confused mind doesn’t buy.” I learned that from Russell Brunson who I’m sure learned it from somebody else, but I learned that quote. In the nature of infomarketers, we’re giving them content. We’re in the business of selling them content so it’s really difficult to trim out the content and sell them inspiration and hope, but you’re a 150% right. The more content you give them, the more objections they are going to have for why it won’t work for them.
The only way that that works is if you’re selling a software that takes out all the complexity. Then pour it on, make it just content, content, let their head explode and then, “By the way, I’ve got this.” For what we do on the info side, no. One thing I want to add too and we may get to this but here’s simplest thing that will help people when they go to craft a webinar. Talk to your customers. Just have conversations with them. It don’t even have to be deep conversations. It’s like if I say to you, “Joel, I’m going to sell something to you. What are you struggling with right now?” Joel then tells me everything and then I write it down. After ten conversations, three, four, five or six of them will be the exact same thing and then a light bulb will go off for you and you’d be like, “That’s my message.” If you have an audience, it is very important to pick up that telephone and talk to your customers. When we talked about Virtual Cash Machine, after the first webinar, I took all the sales calls. It was a braingasm of what in the webinar everybody said we can talk about, but they told me what they needed out of it. I changed the whole webinar format on that based on those phone calls.
We’re going to move from your first webinar, which was Facebook Traffic Jam. It did well over $5 million from a webinar that took you fifteen minutes to write before it was going live, and you gave your whole formula for how you tell stories and inspire people and solve their problems. You crushed it on that webinar. You generated millions of dollars. What was going through your mind? After doing your first webinar and you realized the results that it was producing, you had to be pretty excited.
The first time that I sold something like that, the first dude that said yes on the calls because I took them myself, I was, “Okay. Cool.” I was already making money doing what I was to teach, but selling that many was super exciting. Affiliate partners were happy and excited because it was converting so well. People were reaching out to me. I just wanted to do it as many times as I possibly could and I really enjoyed doing the webinars.
Let’s fast forward to 2014. You’ve got a new offer coming out called Virtual Cash Machine. This one’s a little bit different. You’re not going to a strategy call, you’re going direct to sale, and it’s a $7,000 offer. For everyone here, most people are going to tell you, I’ve even been a proponent of this, that there’s a price elasticity of what you can sell directly on a webinar, usually between $1,000 to $2,000. I’m going to put my student cap on and I’m going to learn and listen how the hell did you sell a $7,000 offer direct to sale on the webinar from cold traffic. What’s the process that we went through here?
The first thing I did when I launched it to my first affiliate, I went to a strategy session and I took every phone call. I knew everything going on in their head. The number one thing that I see people do, Joel and it’s so simple in my opinion, is they get caught up in what they want to sell and not what their customer wants. They’re not talking to their customer. Sometimes we live on an island, and the last time I checked, it’s going to be a human being that pulls out their credit card and buys your stuff. You want to know what their thoughts are, what are their objections, etc. After I did that, I crafted the message to be exactly what they wanted and exactly what they didn’t want. The thing is, in the webinar, creating a good offer is all about what people hate. You find out what they don’t like and then you position yourself different. When I did that, then I went out and I was able to explain in that particular instance, it was an ad arbitrage offer. What do people not like? You got to sell stuff and so this was crafted as how to make money online without selling anything.
Immediately, they’re like, “I don’t sell anything,” and then I presented it to you like, “It’s so hard to find a good offer. You don’t know if you’re going to convert, but this, you don’t have to sell anything. This is just math. How many clicks can I send and how much can I make?” The idea is, by the time you get to ask for the sale, they’re already dying to buy. Like, “Dude, just put the link up so I can buy it.” I’m painting this picture and it was an accurate picture of the fact that the guys doing the webinar were making hundreds of thousands of dollars on this click arbitrage so $7,000 doesn’t seem like much. When you’re talking about those results. We just send them right to the cart and I’ll give them two options. People always need options so I give them two. It was full pay or payment plan. That was the thing and it just converted like gangbusters right off that page.
How long was this webinar?
About 90 minutes. I always try to make the webinar 90 minutes and then do a question and answer. One thing I’ll tell people, and you may tell people this, but the longer your question and the answer is, the more sales you’re going to get. Everybody’s got that “Will it work for me?” Like literally, “I live in Texas. Will it work for people in Texas?” It’s like, “Yes.” It took me a long time to get that. I usually get frustrated. I’m like, “I just answered that for the lady in Maine,” to tell her it worked in Maine, but they do that. I do it. Will it work for me? People always have that. The longer you can get people asking those questions, then the more people fall off the fence, especially if you are the closing to an order form instead of a strategy session. On a strategy session, you’re going to be able to answer a lot of those, but in an order form setting, you have to answer those on the webinar. Sometimes my presentation would last 90 minutes and then the Q and A would be an hour and a half or two hours. I’d stay on until the last person had a question because those were my sales that would fall off. When they hear the replay, it’s all the questions people want to ask. That’s what really helps your sales on a webinar if you’re selling directly to the offer.
If we talk about how you structure your webinar and the content, there’s not a whole lot of teaching here. It’s just what do they hate and I love that. People always want to say, “What do they want?” It’s Kevin and Travis were I learned this from. “The desire’s there, but you have to paint that as that’s just inevitable.“ The way that I think about it is you have to assume that you know where their desire is going. You can about it. A lot of people really focus on that and they’re trying to say, “Here’s how you get to this desire.” I was going through some of Travis’ stuff and he said, “What you really have to do is you picture Hell Island and Heaven Island and between there in the water are the sharks.” It’s like, “You’re really not speaking to Heaven Island, you just assume that’s where they want to go. What you have to be is be the shark killer.” People have jumped in the water before and they’ve been bitten and they’re afraid to get bitten again. That’s what they’re really afraid of. That’s what they hate. They hate selling. How are you going to kill that shark? Why do they hate selling? They hate hearing “no” or they’re scared of getting bit again and get that “no”.
Travis and Kevin are probably two of the best offer creator I’ve ever been around. They’re just amazing. He’s a 100% right. How you do that is you just position your offer as different. To tell you what I did on Virtual Cash Machine, everybody was aware of click arbitrage. What I did, everybody knew what was going on, but a lot of people couldn’t make it work. This is where knowing your audience is very important. Understanding what they want and what they’re afraid of. What are the sharks? Is it a shark? Is it a piranha? If you tell your audience that you don’t have to worry about sharks, but they’re worried about piranhas, then it doesn’t do you any good. I said, “Here is the thing. My offer was about slideshows.” I gave them a typical click arbitrage breakdown where you get 1.8 page views and out of that you’re going to make X and that’s why people can’t make traffic work. With us, we put these slideshows on so our page views are like 19.6. We get eighteen more views than this guy and so you can see how that math works. I said, “LeBron James is the best basketball player in the world, but you give me eighteen shots and you give him two, I’m going to beat him.” People are like, “Oh yeah.” That’s how I craft a story, but what did I really tell them? I didn’t get into, “Here’s the copy of the slideshow.” You got to paint the picture. You bog them down with details and it’s just a sale killer.
That’s why the way that we approach it is we always just talk about the model. The way for us to simplify it. We don’t get into the details. When we sell our programs, we talk about the model. We don’t talk about, “You need to build a webinar for this and then you got to do this and this is what you’re talking about.“ I was like, “No. When you understand the model, you buy into the model. When you buy the training, then we’re going to show you how to implement that model.” The way that I’ve been able to turn my copywriters is to prevent them from getting into the details. Even great copywriters will be tempted like, “How do you do this?” I’m just like, “Back up. Think about the model and how can you tell stories that support your overall model.”
One thing that’s really critical when you’re trying to sell, you want to talk about the things that they hate. When we’re in the webinar, we throw stones and we show them how to kill the sharks and how to solve that pain. How do you approach promoting the webinar? Not traffic, but how do you get them interested in the webinar? Is that now more about the desire focus, the end result, or do you attract them with pain-based headlines?
I’ve done both. A lot of times it depends on who the market is. Like Travis will tell you, entrepreneurs are our market. We will run to heaven. We run towards a result. With entrepreneurs you can sell the result. Non-entrepreneurs typically are fleeing hell so then you hit a pain point for those guys where it’s like, “How are you going to survive the Bitcoin crash?” “Painfully.” Where an entrepreneur, if that’s my target market with Bitcoin, it’s like, “How I tripled my money in Bitcoin or whatever.” There’s a difference there depending on who your market is, but I’ve used both and they both work.
The entrepreneurs are all the opportunity. We’re opportunity seekers so we’re going to run to whatever we see is the light at the end of the tunnel. I’ve never heard that before. It’s never been so clearly defined. It’s like those non-entrepreneurs are going to be avoid the crash. How to avoid the next ’08 crash or ’07 real estate crisis. We’ve always had the internal battle when we craft new webinars like, “Do we lead with a desired result or do we lead with avoiding a pain?“
It helps to really hit that pain, if it’s a real prevalent pain point. If they don’t know what their pain is, obviously, you have to hit the result too. I’m a big believer in both of them and I try to intertwine them. I will tell you, it seems like ads with pain do better for us than ads with pleasure.
I would like to echo that statement only because we brought a lot webinar ads specifically. You might get a lower cost per registration with a pleasure-based or desire-based ad, but there’s less buy in when it’s not associated with a pain. If you’re helping somebody solve a pain and you’re talking to them like, “I’ve got a bleeding neck or I’ve got a toothache right now, let’s get rid of that.” It’s probably a more difficult person to market to, but once you get them to connect with them, they’re a higher likelihood because there’s more buying. You already got that commitment because you’ve resonated with them saying, “I know you’ve got this pain.” They’re probably more likely to show up, attend, and buy.
I’ve had this conversation with a couple of people recently on Sold With Webinars. At least for the next couple of interviews, I want to make this a common question because I want to see what the trend is. I had an interview with Tim Paige who ran Leadpages webinars for a handful of years and he did very well. His approach to selling on webinars was very different than everybody else that I’ve interviewed. What he will do is he will actually present the offer within the first five minutes of the webinar. Meaning like here’s the price, the call-to-action link, and the quick rundown of the details. Then he does this whole webinar. At the end he’s like, “I already gave you that offer, but here’s a quick rundown again.” He crushed it with it. How do you frame, present, and set up the offer on either one of your webinars? Let’s say Virtual Cash Machine, your $7,000 direct sale? What have you found to be effective?
I always do the offer stack, for sure, in bullets. I’m a big bullet guy. Keep in mind, when I get Facebook Traffic Jam, I naturally do some things. When I met Travis, I realized what I was doing by accident and now it’s pretty dangerous. I take bullets of what they want the outcome is, so how-to-without-the. I just hit all those bullets that I can before the offer because I’m bound to hit a pain point here. If I have 30 bullets and I’m going to go through them, I’m bound to hit a pain point. That’s how I sell it. I stack that up, then I give them the offer, I try to make it irresistible, and then I even stack more bonuses on there. Here’s the thing, if you understand what your people want to buy, how you pitch it is not as important as what it is or what it’s going to solve. If you have that covered, you can pitch it any way you want. I’ve found it really doesn’t matter much. Really what you want is, before you even hit the pitch, guys are like, “Where’s the link?” That is a good sign. If they start asking for the link before you pitch it, you’re in, or “Just give me the damn link.”
Then you got buyers who are sold. Like, “I got to go. Take my money.” I guess the main question that I want to ask when it comes to revealing the offer is when you do your webinars, do you let them know any time before you actually get to the call-to-action link that there’s going to be an offer? Do you pre-frame anytime during the content?
I’ve got this line that’s in my webinars now. I don’t know if anybody knows the late Jerry Weintraub, but his brother said, and I love this so I stole it. His brother said, “Jerry’s going to sell you something and you’re going to buy it and you’re going to be happy about it.” When I open my webinar, I’m like, “Here’s what we’re going to cover and I’m going to give you an opportunity to work with us at the end. You’re going to want to do that and you’re going to be happy about it. Stay on to the end and you’ll get that opportunity.” I just pre-frame it just like that. “I’m going to sell you something and you’re going to love it.” I make no bones about the fact that I’m there to sell you something and you’re going to like it because here’s what I believe. I think that if people pre-framed their webinars like this, they’ll have a lot of success. I sell stuff that helps people. People have a problem and I sell stuff to help them. Why in the hell wouldn’t I want to sell them something? I want to sell them something because it’s going to help them. I always look like I’m doing them a favor. If you’re on my webinar, I’m doing you a favor because I’m going to sell you something that’s going to make your life better. I totally do that.
We’ve been seeing that trend almost every time. The webinars that really crush it. I’m not doing any black magic or sleight of hand where I’m going to give you some teaser content, “By the way at the end, here’s an offer.“ I think a lot of people have been sold that bill of goods on how to give webinars. That does way more harm than good. People really don’t understand that. It does harm, especially with cold traffic which is really what we focus on. If this is their first experience with you, let them know that you’re in the business of helping people. You’re in business in general. Don’t give some sleight of hand and say, “I’m going to promise you all this great free content.” Its like, “No. I’ve got an offer for you. You’re going to buy and you’re going to love it,” because that’s what we do. We help people. I’m going to teach you a little bit about our model and give you some great content first, but you just don’t want to burn that bridge when it’s their first exposure with you.
I’m going to talk to you like a person or if you go back to my dad’s thing. I’m going to talk to you or I’m going to talk to somebody like I do my mom or my grandma. Why would I lie to my mom or my grandma? I wouldn’t say, “Mom, come here. I’m going to give you all this content.” No. I’m going to say, “I got something that I really think you’ll like. I think it’s going to be awesome for you.” I’m going to talk to them like a person. If I’m not live, I’m not going to be like, “We’re live.” No, we’re not live. I’m not live. I literally tell people on the On Demand Webinar, “I’m live now. I’m probably not live when you listen to it.” People are not stupid. If you lose that credibility, it has to come from your heart though. You have to really want to help people genuinely and you have to want to be open and honest with them. If you do that, then it comes across that way. They don’t care whether it’s live or not. They just care that you’re honest. The minute you’re not, you’re done. Just like in a marriage, you build trust and it only takes one lie to bring down years of marriage, and so why do it? Just be honest with them. I was just going to add that I do the thing at the front, and then also a few slides in after my intro, I say again that I’ve got this great offer for you and if you’re crazy enough to not want to buy it, I literally use that term. If you’re crazy enough where you just don’t want to buy it, that’s cool. We’re still going to have a lot of fun. Stay with me. I do that twice on the pre-frame.
The way that you have fun and you let your audience have fun is you tell stories. People love freaking stories. The story that you told me about, “You put me up against LeBron James who was the greatest basketball or Michael Jordan or both of them on the same team, give me eighteen shots and they only get one or two. I’m going to beat them ten times out of ten.”
In that story, you’re illustrating that these other guys just don’t understand what I understand. I’m a regular person because I am a regular person and I’m not that smart. Fifth grade math was my thing and I’m like, “It had to be algorithms and things like that to understand twenty shots but in two, so buy my stuff.”
Stories sell and if you can have fun with your audience and you can get them to picture it, it’s like, “I can beat Michael Jordan. I can beat LeBron James. You get me more shots, I’ll sink it.”
What you’re really doing there too in those stories is like an unfair advantage, which also is like, “Will it work for me?” These are all things that I created after the story. It’s not like I thought about all these and plotted them out on a storyboard or anything. Don’t get all weirded out by that if you’re watching this, but you’re doing all that stuff in a story. It’s like, “I’ve got this unfair advantage,” but because it’s in a story, it’s not very complex and people can relate to it. Whenever you start talking about algorithms or slideshows or copy or any of that nonsense, you’re going to lose them.
I meant to ask this when you were going through, when you’re talking about your offer. We’ll end our interview on this because this has just been a lot of fun for me. Hopefully, everyone has gotten a lot of golden nuggets. Most of your sales compliments to Q and A. My specific question comes from when we do Q and As and this could be part of maybe our content is positioned incorrectly, but I get a lot of questions with people who are like, “How do I do this? Can you show us how we do that?” You want to cut that shit out because you’re not here to teach them how. That’s what the program is for. How do handle that? How do you position? Do you ignore those questions? Do you politely put them in their place or do you say, “That’s what the program is for?“
I’ll say both. It depends on what the question is. If the question is something sure and I can give them a how without the what, I’ll do that. “How do you get those twenty shots?” “We just use slideshows. That’s what we do.” They’ll say, “How do I make a slideshow?” I’ll say, “Here’s the thing, for time’s sake, I’ve got a whole module. It’s two hours long about all the time things that you need to go into a slideshow. It’s not real complicated but it’s just more time that I can answer now and you’ll see all that inside.” I do it just like that. I always try to be polite to people. I know that sounds silly, but I really mean it. It’s like I want to help them, but at the same time, they’re just going to get overwhelmed anyway. It’s like when I was in the car business and the guy walked on a lot and say, “What’s the price?” He didn’t even know what to ask. You just say, “Let’s go inside and check it out.” You then start talking to him and things like that. That’s what I do on a webinar. They don’t even know really what to ask and so they start asking these things. I always tried to move them back to the bullet points a little bit.
One of the things I’ve learned in the short time that I’ve been hanging out with Kevin Nations is learning the leadership role, especially from sales. You have to train your prospects and your customers. You have to train them at every step in the process. If somebody asks a question on a webinar, “How do you do this?” For the average Joe who isn’t fully aware of the ramifications for the expert to just give them the answer, that could cost you $7,000 in a sale, because if you give them the answer, there is no reason for them to now go buy your training. It’s a learned skill, I should say.
People are always like, “I have to tell people.” First of all, you’re doing them a disservice. If you have a whole module or a whole training on something and you try to tell him that right there in that question, you’re not going to do them any good because you’re going to miss a bunch of stuff. Don’t think like you have to answer that question. It goes back to talking to them like you would your sister and I’d be like, “Joel, my whole module is like two hours long on this. There’s no way I could do you a service and actually answer that question here. I would just be doing you a disservice because I’m going to leave a bunch of stuff out.” You’ll see that on the inside. Does that answer your question of did you have something else? You’re not a dick to Joel, where it’s like, “No, Joel. I’m not answering that. You’ll see that when you pay me $7,000. You’re just answering it to him like you would when you’re actually doing them a favor.
Jon, this is awesome. I knew that this interview was going to be just solid. We didn’t even get into any audience building strategies which I know is another one of your superpowers. For everyone who’s here, know a couple of things. Number one, there is no such thing as price elasticity. If you can hit the pain points and you can kill those sharks and you can adequately convey that message to your audience, if you can kill those sharks and show them that you are the solution, they’re going to buy your stuff, whether it’s on a strategy call or whether it’s on a direct sale, and realize that people buy from humans. Fifteen minutes you built your webinar, fifteen minutes before your actual presentation that made you $6 million or $5.5 million, whatever the final number was. Lots and lots of money. You didn’t follow a formula. You didn’t buy somebody’s training program and say, “I got to do this.” You spoke to them. You knew that people were struggling with expensive Facebook traffic. You knew you had the solution. You just told them stories. You said this is the model, this is what we do, it’s not necessarily how to do it, a little bit of the how, but not necessarily the what, what to do for how to solve it. I had a great conversation. Is there any parting thoughts you’d like to leave?
Thank you. I had a great time. When I first got into sales and there was a guy who was making $80,000 a month in the mortgage space and my dad introduced me to this guy and he’s like, “Listen to him on the phone.” I listened to him and I was blown away because he was just talking to people. That’s what he was doing. There wasn’t any like big drawn out script. He was just he was being a human being talking to other human beings. Always remember that. Just be a person. Talk to people on a webinar like you would if you’re there. I think that that’s what’s made the difference for me on my stuff.
Where can people check out your stuff? Let’s send people to you, anyone who’s here.
I’m on Facebook. I really don’t sell anything in the teaching space at least currently, but if you want to follow me and you want to see what I’m up to, you can go to Facebook, Jon Tarr. It’s me and my wife and my son on there and our picture. I’ve got nothing to sell you which makes me a bad marketer right now, but you can follow me there. If I ever do have something to sell you, then you can buy it.
You’ve got a massive cryptocurrency following right now.
I’m heavy in the crypto space. In fact, I’ve been in it since 2013 and because of that, I really got out of teaching because I’m so focused on my publishing business.
What’s the name of your group?
Totally Crypto is my group. I always tell people, if you’re scared of it or you’re unfamiliar or whether you love it or hate it, you need to be educated and that group is all about the educational side of cryptocurrency. I think we have 40,000 members currently.
Go check out Jon. He’s an excellent guy and a very smart dude. I know that he doesn’t give himself enough credit, but I can tell you just from the conversation we’ve had, all the results that he’s gotten, simplifying everything is going to give you better results. Jon, thank you again.
Thanks so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed our episode. We look forward to giving you the next one. You can also follow and watch the behind the scenes look at how I’m personally launching a brand new six and seven-figure product from scratch at SoldWithWebinars.com/TV. If you’d like to come hangout with other fellow experts, join our Facebook group at SoldWithWebinars.com/experts.