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Sold With Webinars

How To Get 8X Return On Ads By Listening To Sold With Webinars With AJ And Mike | #033

Tags: Anchor Wave Internet Solutions and Website Design, Mike Schmidt, How To Get 8X Return On Ads By Listening To Sold With Webinars With AJ And Mike, Anthony Rivera, Sold with Webinars, Joel Erway

This special episode of Sold With Webinars introduces its first case study! Mike Schmidt and Anthony Rivera grew their webinar sales from mediocre to million-dollar-massive. What made the difference? Implementing tips and strategies learned from this here podcast.

In this episode, Mike and AJ reveal the key takeaways from past Sold With Webinar episodes that helped put their course, ReviewPro Launchpad, on track to doing $1MM a year.

We have something incredible that we’re doing that we’ve never done before. I’m super excited. We have our very first case study of two people that have been implementing everything they had been learning from Sold with Webinars and they have now built a webinar that’s well on pace to do a million dollars a year. They’ve already collected more than a quarter of a million dollars and they are only going up from here.

We speak with my good friends, Mike and AJ. Mike Schmidt and Anthony Rivera who have been listening to this podcast and implementing everything that they’ve been learning from episode to episode and turning their webinars into high-converting sales machines. Our episode is all about interviewing, what did they learn? What episodes did they enjoy, and what do they actually take and implement into their webinars to make them high-converting sales machines. Enjoy this episode and I really hope that I can interview you on the next case study podcast.

How To Get 8X Return On Ads By Listening To Sold With Webinars With AJ And Mike

Mike Schmidt and AJ Rivera, welcome to the show.

Thanks so much for having us. Like you said, we’ve been listening to the podcast since you put it up and there’s just so much cool stuff getting behind the scenes. We looked at people’s numbers. Right before we came on, AJ is asking me like, “Is there any angles we should take or anything that we want to like as private info or whatever.” I was thinking about it for a second. I was like, “People who come on this thing are really open about what they do and I’ve learned so much and I promised you that we’re going to tell everybody exactly what we’re doing so that way maybe there’s just one small idea someone can take away from what we’re doing that’s going to help them. There have been so many people, you included in podcast that have allowed us to stack basically our art. What we have now and actually having something that’s a real business for us that real. That’s the best way I can describe it. Like before, it’s all had been my dreams, wishes and aspirations and hopes and now it’s here which is cool.

Why don’t we do a quick intro? Talk about who you guys are, what’s the business that you guys are in. Just give them a quick intro about nature of what you do, and then we’ll jump into our little first ever Sold with Webinars podcast case study.

My name is Mike Schmidt with my partner, Anthony Rivera, we own a business called Anchor Wave Internet Solutions and Website Design, a digital marketing agency based in Tucson, Arizona. Right outside my office door here, we’ve got a team of twenty people who basically build websites and help local businesses market online. We’ve done that really well. We’ve had a really strong solid business around this that we’re really passionate about and really love doing. In the process, we’ve learned a hell of a lot about running an agency and how to build sales and how to manage projects and how to keep clients happy, how to hire, how to keep your team happy. How would you like just build something that is sustainable and growing. Actually, it’s our fifteenth anniversary in the business, which is cool.

In that time, we’ve learned a lot of things. We’ve been working towards building what we call our education business for awhile. Trying to figure out how we can take these fifteen years of knowledge and build it in a way that we can share that with a community of web designers, digital marketers, PR professional. People who are professionals at getting their clients results with the work that they do. When we started, there was a site called SitePoint.com. It was like a $600 product. A binder full of basically operations and procedures basically it could be for any company but like they had branded it for web design clients and creative stuff. That was my go-to for figuring out how and this is before Anthony and I even met. When we met, we were talking.

I had purchased it too because I was going to start my own agency as well back in the day and I purchased the same thing. We’re both super familiar with it.

That was the only thing we had. We’re just trying to figure out like how we can give that same stuff back. I do want to say that for everyone that’s here that feel like they’ve tried everything and they’ve gotten every different angle and they’ve been somewhat successful in some things and totally flopped in others. There have been times where you thought this was the thing. You’re finally arrived only to be like have the door shut in your face like we have. That has been our experience. Where we’re at now, fast forward, that was a quick little journey through our trials and tribulations. Fast forward to now, we have a community called Agency Mastermind and a product that we teach called ReviewPro Launch Pad. We took the single most effective piece of our agency business, sliced it out, package it up and we are teaching that now to people. What that is, is we as an agency help our clients get five-star reviews for their business, predominantly local businesses. What we realized is that helping a business get five star reviews is the awesome entry point for any creative or marketing agency.

8X Return on Ads: It’s six times easier to sell to somebody that already has done business with you than somebody who’s never bought from you like cold traffic.

Russell Brunson talks a lot about the Value Ladder. The Value Ladder, the concept is what product do you start with and then what you sell them next because it’s six times easier to sell to somebody that already has done business with you than somebody who’s never bought from you like cold traffic. What would happen is people will come to us as our web design company and say, “Mike, I know you can build a website for me.”I say, “Sure.” They’d say, “How much?”I’d say, “Here’s the investment.”They’d either say yes or they say no to that. The ones that said no would go somewhere else or do something else. The ones that said, “Yes,” I would build a website before they pay me and then they got to spend my value at it. The object of the game was the more people I could get into my value ladder the more people I could sell a website to, the more people I could sell other stuff too. That’s the basics. When we built a really strong, really good business based off of that.

What we realized though is if we could put reviews and reputation below that as our bottom level, there are so many more businesses that need our help with it and are willing to talk with us about it. It’s a lower price point. We’re getting more people in at that bottom step. We’ve been talking to people who they have a web design company. They have somebody in house that’s doing it, yet they’re still willing to talk to us about. When before, if I went to that same company and said, “Can I help you with the website?” They’d be like, “We’ve got a guy. We’re good, Mike.”

Then I said, “Do you realize that in the last 90 days, you guys have gotten killed on your reviews?” If I showed you a way that we can literally flood Google, Yelp, Facebook, and a bunch of others with five star reviews, would you be interested in hearing about it?”You can bet that same person would totally take the time to do that. That’s been our secret weapon. We’re getting into opportunities that we wouldn’t otherwise have. We’ve taken that process, how to do that, the proposals we use, our prospecting methods. One of prospecting methods we just added to our course the other day was a process that in a one-hour meeting, it got us 61 leads of people raising their hands saying, “Yes.” I want help with this site in a live meeting.

This has been a really game changer for our agency. Now, we’re building a community, a tribe of people who are being impacted positively because they finally have something that they’re profitable at on the frontend, and they’re able to use that to grow the rest of their agency no matter what their expertise is, which is just really, really exciting. This is really cool because it gets really quick results. Typically, our clients when we launched a campaign, they’re getting results within 24 hours or usually within a month. That builds a lot of trust when you’re able to just knock it out of the park and now when you go back to them, they’re a lot more willing to listen to what you suggest next.

The webinars that you ran is to teach people how to do what you guys are doing as an agency. To allow other agency owners, freelancers, or professionals to include this as a service, to show them how you guys have gotten a lot of success and the whole nine yards. One of the cool things about that angle and I’ve discovered this through number one, trial and error, and number two, talking to super successful people like yourself and other people on the podcast. There are two angles that you can take with that type of offer and this works for a lot of people when you’re serving the B2B niche. You could take the angle of doing a webinar or doing some promotion where if you’re trying to productize your service, the one angle that you can take is, “I want to show you how to rather than hiring us as a service, let me sell you a program on how you can do it yourself.” A lot of people go with that route and go that angle.

I’m like, “I’ve got a course and a program. I want to sell it to the same customers while I’m doing this as a service for and it’s not effective.” They struggle really hard. They struggle a lot with it and it’s because of the fact that like people don’t really want to do it themselves. If there’s a service out there, they really don’t want it do it themselves as much as it sounds sexy to do it. The flip side is if you now go to the market as I’m going to show you how you can sell this to other people, we made that switch with our webinar. We were struggling last year to sell our webinar program. “How to build a seven figure webinar for yourself.” We sold some but it wasn’t profitable and I’m like, “What on Earth are we doing wrong?”When we flipped it and said, “Let me show you how you can write seven figure webinars to other people and charge more. Get paid five figures to write a seven-figure webinars for other people, the floodgates opened up.

It’s a business opportunity.

It’s was a very, very simple switch but it took us a long freaking time to figure it out. Anyway, I love what you guys are doing.

That’s really important because it’s like you may be really close to something and you just need to change the positioning of who you’re selling to and you might be like one step away from that, one reframe away. That’s something we’ve had to do.

We had actually thought about doing that. Teaching our clients or people like our clients do their own Facebook Ads. We started pre-selling it. Whenever we’ve got an idea, I’ve gone out and try to sell that just over the phone with people and if we can sell it then we’ll move forward, but if not then we won’t.

We had lot of people raise their hands and say, “We’re interested in that, but we have one or two people actually pay us to do it. We ended up refunding both of those people because it doesn’t make sense. Then we moved up the chain to somebody else, to eight other agencies teaching them how to do something and it’s been really good.

Let’s now talk about your webinar. You’ve got your product, got your offer, let’s crush them, but obviously, it didn’t start out crushing it. You knew that it had some legs. Take us back to the journey. When did this all start? This program that you’re now selling to other agencies?

Originally, one of the biggest things we changed that’s really light this thing on fire was at first, we were really transparent about what it was we were teaching on the webinar. We were saying, “Come on this webinar. We’re going to show you how to use reviews to grow your agency.” Everyone’s like, “That sounds boring and I review reviews. I already know about that. I’ve already tried that. We offer that service.”

It’s Anthony’s idea to do this and I thought of it for a little bit and from that I learned that I just need to be more trusting opinions and be like, “Let’s test it.”What we did was we got really curiosity-based with it. Instead of saying, “Here are some reviews,” we’re saying, “We added this one simple service to add a bunch of money to our agency.” Then we go out of our way to say what it wasn’t because everyone in our space was assuming it was going to be Facebook ads, it could be pay-per-click or it could be websites or consultations. All these things are angles that people would assume. We don’t obviously say it’s not reviews because it is reviews but nobody guesses that. The ads that we’re running to drive traffic, people like make a game out of like guessing what it is and it’s amazing how often they don’t guess.

I want to make sure I’m understanding the flow. The first big change that you made was you changed it to be curiosity-based on your ads. Explain what’s the message in the ad to get them to register?

It’s really all built around the Value Ladder. Just like Mike explained it, we’re saying, “This is where typically people would come in with a web design then we’ll do SEO or do Facebook ads or whatever else. He said, “I discovered this initial step and there’s a question mark there. I found that I can get a ton of people to go into this step and the more people I can get in there, the more people I can send up. If you want to know what this is, come join us. We’re going to talk to you all about what that service is.” That’s when where the curiosity is greater.

You’re actually saying like, “If you want to know what that step is, come onto the webinar and I’ll show you what it is.” You don’t ever tell them until they get onto the webinar?

Yeah. That helped with not only our cost per lead going down, but also the show rate. When they knew it was reviews, they’re going to say, maybe there’s a different angle or something. That reminder comes up and they’re busy. They’re like, “I already know what it is.”I think that curiosity gets to people and they want to find out what it is. We actually see at the point when I mentioned it, sometimes there is a little bit of a drop off just because they still like right after he mentions it, we say, “And you might be thinking you already do this,” but all these things have reasons why they might hang up at that point. Mike says, “If you don’t have this fire in your gut about why this is awesome, then you need to stay on because you might be doing it wrong.”

None of your pre warm-up emails, none have your indoctrination emails say what it is?

The only way they could figure it out is if they actually paid attention to what the domain name says because it says, “ReviewProLaunchPad.com.” There’s the dead giveaway right there. We’ve thought about like taking it off and putting on something more generic. Probably about twenty minutes in is when I actually reveal what it is, after my story and all this stuff. I would even acknowledge, I’m like, thanks for not like virtually punching me in the face for dragging it out this long.

Some people get so upset.

That upset is they’re engaged to that point.

When you say they get so upset, why do they get upset?

They’re like, “Just tell us already. Why are you going to make us wait until next Wednesday?” because it’s the live webinars. “I want to know now.” They’re not patient.

I got to tell you, nobody that I’ve interviewed has really dragged the curiosity factor. Maybe they’ll do some ads or something, but they don’t drag it out that long. It clearly works. Your show up rates are extremely high.

There’s been no downsides to it. The only challenge it presents is we have to be thoughtful about the other content that we put out there. They’re just stuff that’s all automated and ready to go, but now we’re at a point where I want to create more of a brand around like me and Agency Mastermind. That way I can be like seen as a more trustworthy individual in the space and if all I’m talking about is reviews and all my other stuff, then they’re going to be like, “My curiosity-based over here and it only talks about are these reviews. I wonder what it is.

Generally, we just have to be a little bit broader about just our experience in running an agency, hiring people, helping clients and all that stuff. I’ll be honest, I didn’t think it was going to work as well as it did and it has really been what sparked everything else that’s been helpful. Just getting that cost per lead down. We were looking at cost per lead around $21, $22 and we dropped that to $3 to $6. If you run ads for registrant’s, you know that it jumps all over the place. It’s constantly battle, but for us to go immediately from $21 to $6 was a game changer for us. It made the math work.

There is so much focused on the cost per lead. It’s not a vanity metric, but it’s not the number that you really should be focused on. It’s hard to say that you shouldn’t be focused on it until you start making sales because it’s like, “What other number I haven’t started selling it? What other number am I going to look at?”

That’s actually lead us through a continual optimization with all these numbers. What’s our cost per registrant, what is our show percentage and how do we get that to be awesome? How do we get purchases on the call and their follow-ups and all that?

The first iteration before you even made the changes to the curiosity-based ads, where you guys profitable? Were you making any sales?

Yeah. It was probably two times ads spent.

You’re losing money.

I was hit and miss. When we went, we have three times ad spent, the next week we barely got our money back.

You’re making two times the return on your ad spent. Is this before you dropped your cost per lead?


That’s actually not that bad.

The other thing that people who are listening to this will be like, “He is upset he made 2X his ad spend?”

8X Return on Ads: You can come here and learn something and go away and really benefit from it.

You went curiosity-based and that dropped your cost per lead. Let’s talk about your webinar now. You’re doing two X return on your ad spend, what’s your typical conversion rate on your webinar and what were some of the optimization things that you saw and make the biggest take here?

We convert about 11% of the people that show up. We convert anywhere from 3% to 5% of registrants.

3% to 5% cold traffic registrants on a thousand dollar offer?

We liked it.

To give you guys some perspective, we’ve had million dollar webinars converting at 1% with a thousand dollar offer.

Our biggest challenge right now is just the scaling aspect. Now, that’s where our focus is, is how do we just play the numbers game with this and leverage the math formula that we built for ourselves here.

That’s always been the number one question after you’ve got a successful webinar. What were the big things that you did inside of your webinars that affected the change?

There are probably a couple of things. I want to talk about something very specific. One of the interviews that you did here with Dan Henry, was really, really enlightening to us. I’ve seen this webinar but I wasn’t really understanding the magic behind it until I listened to here. It was really cool to have this as a resource to understand it play-by-play. One of the things he does and we now do is we have a moment in the webinar we’re I actually give them a little of homework to do. I asked them to post a Facebook comment on their personal feed regarding the service that we’re offering on three sentences.

When they post that it’s going to show them that they have people in their world that want their help with reviews and reputation. Dan does something similar in terms of he wants to run an experiment with doing a Facebook ads tests for somebody interested. We’re doing basically the same thing. “We want to run an experiment around reviews and reputations. Who’s interested? What winds up happening is I convinced people to post this on their wall and we have people in the webinar that are actually getting leads and opportunities for the service that we’re about to sell them the course to.

They’re super excited. Why won’t they get it? We’ve had people, they get their first one in under a minute. We had a girl that got sixteen leads while on the webinar. Imagine they could see all that opportunity and they’re ready to move forward.

That’s allowed me to like say things about the webinar and our other lead ups to it that’s totally honest and true. Which is like, “This isn’t one of those webinars you’re going to get on where you hear a lot of good ideas but nothing actionable.” You’re going to leave like many other people before you with leads and opportunities for this service. You can come here and learn something and go away and really benefit from it. That’s been really a strong thing and that’s because of what we heard Dan talk about on this podcast and we went back to the how can we structure that in a way that does the same thing for us? I told Dan recently that our webinars stinks like Dan Henry. He’s influenced it quite a bit and there’s some other things that he’s done that I thought was really strong as well.

When you first did that and your first did that in your first webinar, did you see a noticeable boost in sales?

In the beginning, it’s really easy to do a bunch of tests at once. We’re going to add this damn thing and then we’re going to change our follow-up sequence and then we’re going to also do this and we will do all these things at the same time because we were in a race against time. We need to make this work. Whereas now that we’ve got more predictability, it’s lot easier for us to say, “We’re going to test this one thing this week.” We’re going to change the registration page, we’re going to change this ad and we can actually be methodical.

I’ve heard people on this podcast that they forget who was has their spreadsheet and they track where they’re at right now, what they think is going to happen, and we have a spreadsheet like that. Back at the time when we were making these changes, we didn’t do that at all. We’re just like, “Let’s throw everything we think is a good idea to this and let’s see what works.” I can’t really tell you whether or not that one thing did. I just know because it feels good. Todd just got eight leads from this. “That’s awesome, Todd. Anybody else get leads from this? Who else has got leads? Awesome Todd. I think you’re the record. You said two minutes, that’s really quick,” and stuff like that.

Now, when we do the changes though, we do target like all the different connections. We might try one thing that’s going to impact show rate. We try to hit as many of those as we can because we know the impact affecting each of those variables is huge.

The interview with Dan Henry made a big impact. Let’s talk about another metric that I’m pretty impressed with, which is your show up rate. You said right now you’re doing a lot of 30% to 35% attendance rate on your live webinars. Take me through the progression and what episodes, if you can remember, helped influence boosting your show up rate?

The ManyChat stuff. I think you had Molly on. I’ll tell you all the things we’re doing and like I apologize if I can give the right person the right credit for these things because I know there’s been a lot. When somebody registers, they’re getting an email sequence from us. It’s basically three emails and like you pointed out before, we’re not being super forthcoming about what it is we’re teaching. We’re still maintaining that curiosity angle. What we’re also doing this on the thank you page of the registration, we have ManyChat button and some texts that says, “We’d like to invite you to join our Facebook group, but only in the next three minutes.”

We got a three-minute countdown timer. They click on the button, which the ManyChat button, which starts the sequence of inviting them into our group. Inside the Messenger Bots will basically asking them a couple of questions. First we asked them for their email address and we’re doing that because we want to tie this ManyChat user with the email address that we have so we know that we can then target them and send them automated stuff at certain times. That’s the trick there.

As soon as they give us that, we say, “Here’s the link to the group and they have to request access.”Then we say, “The webinar’s not until Wednesday and we want to know if you don’t want to wait until Wednesday. Would you be interested in watching a recorded replay from another week?”If they click yes, they are then given a link to a page and this page is not the replay but is an order page for $3 we will let them watch the replay.

I can’t say that we have like a ton of people take advantage of this, but I see $3 sales coming through consistently throughout the week because for that person who really wants to watch it, I want to put a little bit of a financial barrier between them and this thing because if I give them the replay right then, they’re going to be like cool. Stuff it in their pocket, walk away and forget about it. If we make them pay $3, the likelihood of them washing it increases. I wish I had more info about the conversion on that group of people or not. We just haven’t looked at it because the rest of our numbers had been super strong. It’s an area for us to go back.


I would love to know like how many of those people who buy that $3 replay. They could put in any countdown sequence after they buy it? Or they’re on the same live webinars sequenced?

Yeah. They’ll still get all that same stuff. They just happen to get special instant access replay.

It’s like if you do an evergreen, people complain that it’s evergreen. If you do live then they’re like, “I got to wait this many days.”This is like a good balance. If you don’t want to wait, you have an option to watch it now. It’s not about us taking $3 from you because trust me, that isn’t helping anybody. That’s just test of how serious you are about it.

It doesn’t even recoup the registration costs.

We know we can convert them better.

Then also in that sequence of getting them to show up, we have a text message reminder which is pretty standard. We also do a voicemail drop using Slybroadcast. If you don’t know what that is, it’s basically prerecorded voicemail that it leaves a voicemail on their phone without ringing. I don’t know how they do it. It shows up as a missed call from me and then my voicemail with it. We do get people to calling back? “We missed a call from you. I’ll get somebody from my office.”It’s like, “Bob from XYZ Media said he just missed a call from you Mike.” I’m like, “Okay.” Every week at 9:30, this will happen. Just let them know that I’m excited to have them on the webinar and to remind them about it. It’s a quick little voicemail where I’m saying, just reminding them they registered. It’s starting in a half hour from now and we’ve got 800 people registered and the room will only hold 500 so show up a few minutes earlier or something like that.

Have you tested the times at all?

We bounced around a lot initially. Right now, we’re doing every Wednesday, 9 AM Pacific.

I think we had our best one when were like, “Let’s just do it at this time again.” It went well. We just left it there.

I know a lot of people say Thursday is the day. You start your ads Monday and Thursday is the day for us, has been Wednesday, Wednesday at 9 AM. It also falls in the category of things that we could test at a different time, but I just don’t want to mess with what’s working right now.

Next is ROI, just keep freaking doing it and turn it evergreen as quickly as possible.

That’s the number one thing that anyone who’s in the game will tell us after they hear our story. They’re like, when you get to evergreen that? Have you evergreen it yet? Is that evergreen yet, Mike? I’m like, “No.” It’s something we want to do and there’s been like two weeks because of scheduling your vacations and stuff that we did that and it just didn’t work. There is a whole another process we’ve got to go through without screwing something else up.

Going evergreen is its whole other strategy. We get a lot of clients who call me up like, “I want you to build this in evergreen webinar funnel.” You’ve now instituted twelve to fifteen other variables outside of the webinar message itself that you have to test. We’ve had a couple that hit it out of the park right out of the gate. There was a lot of others that don’t even if you’re successful. Your eight to one ROI and then you go evergreen. There’s no guarantee.

Something we want to share that I think would be useful to some people is that the very first webinar we did for this service, it went great. We didn’t sell anything on it. We went to lunch afterwards and we saw the first sale come through. We were like screaming the restaurant about our first sale and that we proved the model. Afterwards, Anthony tells me, he’s like, “That was great. That was the best one I’ve ever done.” I’ve done other webinars in the past, not for this, but he says it was the best. I’m like, “Great.” Let’s evergreen it. There are more work to be done.

We were recording with it right away and it didn’t work.

I’ve heard people say like, “You got to do it live.” Every week for a year and then you can evergreen it and I’m like, “I’m better than that. I’m just going to knock this out of the park and do it.” I know people who has been successful. I know Dan Henry, it was basically that’s his story. God bless him. I’ve learned so much about my audience. I I’ve gotten so much better as presenter. There are just so many good things that have come out of that. It also helps that we’re making money. It’s like basically the most productive two hours I could spend my entire week is doing this now, which makes it easier. If we weren’t converting, I would have already gotten burned out and crushed by this.

I would just say like, “If you’re thinking that you’re going to do it once and evergreen it, just give it a shot. We are close to the point where we want to evergreen this thing, but we’ve only been at this for three, four months now. I’ve done a bunch of them. We’ve done 30 some webinars. Now, I feel good about it. If I would’ve done it the first one out of the gates, I would’ve said that was a failure. We wouldn’t have gotten these results and we would have robbed ourselves of the opportunity to make all these other small adjustments on the way. It has really made the difference between us making a business out of this and it being something that was like a lot of the other things that we’ve tried just fell to the wayside.

We’ve got some significant changes to the content in the webinar too. Like the secrets and even the story at the beginning. When we first started, we saw successful webinar. We copied a lot of what was there and then we reviewed it and started looking for opportunities to squeeze things that we’ve used on other webinars that just work better. Then added a little bit more value and that seemed to make a big difference as well.

There are just a million things that you can test with a webinar and I’m glad you stuck to it because obviously do an eight to one return on your ad spend, that’s nothing bad. That’s impressive. A couple of other things, what are your typical sales percentages live versus follow up replay?

We probably do more live now. For a long time, we weren’t getting anything after. It’s like if didn’t buy that day, they weren’t going to buy. There is something specifically changed that’s helpful that you think?

8X Return on Ads: If we weren’t converting, I would have already gotten burned out and crushed by this.

We don’t do a great job of tracking this, but we do a weekly live webinar. We run our ads. I don’t think it’s a secret to some people that were doing this every week. Some of the sales are coming through aren’t necessarily from the current week right now. I feel like a lot of the follow-up ones are coming from previous weeks or somebody who’s been to our webinar two or three times and it’s finally making that decision. We got a call from somebody this week from back in November who said like, “My wife and I had been like talking about it and talking about it and waiting for the right time to do it and we said screw it. We’re just going to put it on a credit card now and go.”

There’s definitely that side of it. This last week was probably the most we’ve ever had on the webinar itself. It’s been a big deal. My gut gets a little fuzzy when you attributed back to like our ad spend and like saying, “We spent this much. We had this many sales,” but are we going to absolutely drive ourselves nuts trying to really attribute and then go back and read your numbers from three months ago based on the sale that happened this week. How can you really attribute that ad spend to this sale? We just gave up on trying to do that. We’re just like, “If a sale comes in during this week, it’s getting contributed towards this week of ad spend.”

It’s still your same efforts. You’re still doing the live webinars. A lot of the times, we are running weekly live webinars every week. We would re-invite our list, our existing list and just re-invite them to the same damn webinar and it worked. We had some people who told us, “I watched it seven times before I bought.”That’s just part of it. It’s an excellent list-building exercise. Frank Kern, I think he produced some report that said people who acquire their email address for through a webinar is like X percent more valuable than any other free report or whatever. I need to go back and find that because that was pretty cool. Keep re-inviting them. That’s what I tell everybody, every week.

We haven’t even really done much of that. I sent out a re-invite email and we’ve watched as we’re talking here about 40, 45 people re-register for this webinar. Our ad traffic has been so strong and we’ve been using our re-invites just like we’re having a slow registrant week and just pump that up.

That and ManyChat.

I feel like ManyChat is another friend too that we will get into a little bit more seriously because I’m on Molly’s list for her program and I get so many messages from her. This is a constant reminder like you need to message people. If they’re on your list, message them. Either they’re going to buy or opt in or they’re going to get off your list. That holds true for ManyChat. Maybe Facebook will lay the smack down on that at some point, but for right now that’s the opportunity that we have and people will be complaining one day about these are the good old days when you could still get away with that stuff.

Now, you guys are doing eight X return on your ad spend every single week and you’re just making it rain, which is awesome. What’s next on the docket for you?

For us, we have two initiatives. One being going to the evergreen direction. The other big one is JVs. We’ve figured out cold traffic and scaling that is like I mentioned before, a big opportunity for us. The JV is another category for us. What’s cool about this product is we can exist on either end if somebody else’s value ladder. If somebody sells a Facebook ads course, like reviews can be the lead in to help their students sell more Facebook ads. Guess what? Their courses helped a bunch of people build Facebook ads agencies, our course can be a great upsell to the people that they have in reach. We get to straddle on either side, so it’s a no-brainer for anybody who is teaching agencies or creatives or copywriting or email marketing or any of that stuff because this just helps them get more of what they are teaching them or helps them offer an upsell for the stuff that they’ve already sold.

A lot of times, there’s so much education required for Facebook ads and stuff. To get somebody to understand that they should do it and then why you should do it with reviews, they just get it. A lot of business owners, they try to fix this problem on their own. They’ve sent emails to hand-picked customers that they know are going to give them good reviews or their family or their friends and they don’t get the results they’re looking for. When you’re able to say, “I’m going to flood your review situation with five star reviews on Google, Facebook, Yelp,” they’re excited by that.

I’m super proud of you. I’m super pumped for the success that you have been having with your webinar and it’s just nothing but big things from here. That’s really exciting. I’m super glad you guys reached out and shared with me what those results were. Thanks for giving love to this podcast. Do you have any parting thoughts with anything you’d to learn, anything more that you’d like to share?

I think one of the things we’ve been looking at is we’ve been trying to test some new ads and we had some ads that were producing $3 to $5 cost per lead. When I actually looked at the conversion to sale, it was higher than maybe a $6 or $8 ad. Just making sure that we wouldn’t killed those, put all our money towards a $3or $4 ads, we’re getting more people, but it’s costing us more to get an actual sale. We’re starting now to hit more on pain points associated with people like talking about burnout.

If you’re talking to a web design or a digital marketing that’s just burnt out on clients and burnt out on doing a lot of work but not making any money. It’s all the stories that we’ve experienced in like go in and out of all the time and those are in our own agency, our own experience and there’s a little bit longer video format by breaking it down. Like that had a higher cost per registrant, but it had our best cost per sale and it’s just like we easily would have turned that off just if we were only looking at how much it was costing us to get that person and see what we’re attracting with that ad at a higher quality person.

I’d say that and then the social proof. That’s what’s also helped conversion along the way is the more people that we can get video testimonials for, the more screenshots that we take from the group or emails that we get, we can put those all on the page and I think that makes it a lot stronger.

We’ve figured out ways to automate some of that stuff. When somebody signs up for a course, there’s certain things that it goes through, one of those steps is to invite them to leave a video testimonial. We just automated that piece and now we just have emails popping up in our inbox and we’ve got a new testimonials, which is huge.

You’re getting video testimonials from people who are getting leads from your webinar?

Leads from the webinar and people who are getting results from the training that they’ve gone through. Our paying clients that have done through analysis and seen results.

I will say one thing, making sure that you’re tracking the cost per sale on your ads. We’ve seen that happen more times than not. The low cost per lead is actually a higher cost per sale. The interview that we just finished up with Jon Tarr, we talked about pain-based ads versus desire-based ads. I’ll tease it here so everyone listening right now can go listen to that episode. There is a huge difference in the two. We talked about the two markets respond to each of them. I think what you said, AJ was the pain-based ads were performing better.

They were, yeah.

It’s exactly what we talked about on that interview.

The way you described as the whole Value Ladder, that’s more the more desire-based. I want to get more sales. I want this new thing I can put at the beginning. Where is the pain? Those people are hungry for a solution.

They don’t have the pain right now.

Connecting on the desire, you get a lot of wishful thinkers and there’s no commitment with the desire. When there was a pain, you’ve already attached yourself to a commitment. When you’ve connected with them on a pain that they’re currently having, that’s already one commitment that you’ve got with them. They’re more committed to solving it than somebody who is like, “I’d love to make $1 million, but there’s no pressing need for me to do it right now.”

We’re super grateful for you and this podcast has been amazing resource for us as we’ve become more and more of webinar junkies ourselves.

If you want to check any of it, it’s AgencyMastermind.com/Learn. That’s the opt in page for the webinar. You can register there and then you’ll be able to see all the stuff we’ve got going on with ManyChat and email.

I appreciate it. How else can they connect with you? You’ve got your website there, but what other links can you share?

Look us up on Facebook for the Agency Mastermind. It’s a free group of agencies. We’re always hanging out in there and then our webinar registration page at AgencyMastermind.com/Learn. If you want to check out our agency, it’s AnchorWave.com. Check us out. Stalk us, go like us and see what’s up.

I appreciate it. It’s always great to catch up with you. For those of you listening right now, be sure to hit up Mike and hit up AJ and let them know you found them through this Sold with Webinars Podcasts. Take care.

Mentioned in this episode

Interview with Dan Henry – Episode 19

Interview with Molly Keyser – Episode 21

Interview with Jon Tarr  – Episode 32

Follow and watch a behind-the-scenes look at how I’m personally launching a brand new 6 & 7 figure product from scratch at SoldWithWebinars.com/TV

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