Podcast

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[00:00:00] Jason Henderson:

People mistakenly assume that all the people that didn’t buy this time don’t want it. That’s not true. What happens in most cases is they didn’t want it then. That doesn’t mean they don’t want it now because you know, every list has, you know, a customer life cycle and, you know, people need things at certain times, or they’re just not ready.

[00:00:23] INTRO:

This is experts unleashed, revealing all professionals and entrepreneurs transform experience into Gama while positively impacting the world. For years, Joel Erway has helped entrepreneurs develop and launch their expert based businesses, growing them beyond six and even seven figures a year.

Now a professional expert serves their community through paid training, education, or service. This podcast will help you design and execute your plan to become a six or seven figure expert without a massive team. To get more information or apply now, visit theperfectexpert.com. Let’s get started.

[00:01:06] Joel Erway:

What’s going on, everybody. Joel Erway here and welcome to another very special episode of experts unleashed. I am super pumped today because you are in for an amazing, an amazing treat. As you know, I only bring on the best of the best guests on this podcast. And I got connected with our guest here today.

We’ve been probably unofficially connected for a few years stalking each other on the social medias, but I’ve known about him for a very, very long time. And then we reconnected here a couple of months ago as we were chatting about something that is very, very relevant for anybody who’s interested in making a full-time income as a freelancer or a copywriter.

So I brought the best in the business on our show here today, Jason Henderson, who is the king pin of email marketing. And so this is near and dear to my heart because I have experience with working with agency clients on an email marketing standpoint. And while I love what I do on the agency side, working with people on webinars and mini webinars and all sorts of different campaigns, I will tell you unequivocally, without a shadow of a doubt, the most profitable campaigns, the most profitable clients that I worked with were on email marketing campaign projects.

And there’s a lot that we’re going to be talking about here, but we are going to be talking about the fastest way for copywriters or freelancers to make a substantial full-time living, doing what Jason talks about. And so I’m excited to dive into today’s episode, but Jason, welcome to the show, my man.

[00:02:51] Jason Henderson:

Hey Joel. Thanks for having me. I’m excited.

[00:02:53] Joel Erway:

Yeah, we’re gonna have a lot of fun here today. Now. Quick background about Jason and some of his results. Jason has over $700 million worth of like trackable email marketing revenue. His agency clients pay him $10,000 per month in flat fees, just for the right to pay him.

Commissions. Right? So it’s $10,000 a month to write the emails plus royalties on top of that. And those royalties stack up, they can be $10,000, $20,000 as much as $35,000 in a single month on top of his $10,000 you know, earnings fee. And so not saying that’s what we can promise you, but I want you to understand that, like once you work this skill, once you understand why this is the least riskiest skillset for you and your clients, but yet gives you both the highest earning potential, you’ll have no logical conclusion, but to seriously consider whether or not this is an opportunity for you to move forward in pursuing you know, obviously we’re gonna be talking about some of Jason’s results here on the podcast here today.

We’re going to showcase some of his case studies. He’s going to talk about. How he got started, why this is such a great opportunity. And he also has a training course that he works specifically with copywriters and specifically with freelancers to show them how to go from zero to, you know, $5,000 a month, $10,000 a month, and making your first six figures as an email marketer.

And so Jason, did I do a good enough job of introducing you or nor did I leave anything out?

[00:04:27] Jason Henderson:

You left out my nickname, big Jason, you know, the whole seven-foot former professional basketball player.

[00:04:34] Joel Erway:

Yeah, he is. He is nicknamed big Jason and it’s not nickname big for big results. Right. Although we could probably give him that nickname for the big results you’ve gotten for your clients.

Anyway, Jason, why don’t you give us a little bit of background? What I would love to dive into as we start to explore this conversation? I’ve already talked to. You know why I love email marketing in landing agency clients, but like, how’d you discover this? Like, how did you get into it? Did we’re just, did you come out of the womb saying, you know what I want to be, I want to be an email marketer.

I want to be email revenue specialist.

[00:05:05] Jason Henderson:

Right? It actually started in 94. I was a, I helped Hollywood celebrities and adult film stars get tan. I worked their graveyard shift at a tanning salon when I was doing acting and modeling in Los Angeles where I grew up and the graveyard shift, I had midnight to 2:00 AM and then 7:00 AM to 8:00 AM to make sales.

That’s it. So I had to come up, you know, I wasn’t, you know, I wasn’t like 18, 17 blonde with certain assets during the day where the huge rush of customers are. So I literally had to figure out how to make sales. And I actually ended up number two in sales, so that. Kind of started, like, I hadn’t stayed any type of marketing, but just being in that situation, I had to figure out how to set myself apart, how to make more sales, man.

It really came down to knowing the numbers, knowing the differences in the products, knowing the ingredients and really doing the research so that, you know, I could be something other than, Hey, do you want some lotion, or would you like to upgrade your package? So that helped me set myself apart and get my brain moving.

And then in 96, after I came back from Australia, my first stands and playing professional basketball. I met a lady in Arkansas who sold wildflower seeds and she did e-commerce. And I wish I knew what I knew now back then, because it was e-commerce, and it was a local business. I just, you know, made my name.

Is that guy back then? I think that would have been awesome. But yeah, so I was doing her emails. I was doing her, you know, marketing optimization during the shopping cart and stuff like that. And that really got me started. And then I believe it was 2006. I first came upon mech labs, like the world’s largest marketing online research and testing company.

And I went to their event, probably, you know, thousands of people every year for 12 years, I spoke there and really learned about, you know, split testing and tracking data and, you know, not misrepresenting data, but coming to the wrong conclusions, you know, avoiding confirmation bias. And yeah, from that wildflower lady, I just kept on meeting people, going to events.

And you just find out that there’s so many people that are surviving in pockets of ignorance. You know, everybody’s focused on the front end, paid traffic, organic traffic, getting that first sale and the really leaving so much money on the table on the back end. And that’s where, you know, all the money is. It’s, you know, free money.

[00:07:44] Joel Erway:

Well, the way that its kind of all sunk in for me. And, you know, maybe you can back this up or maybe you can say, Joel, you’re an idiot. I don’t know. But the way that this all kind of sunk in for me, like we were acquiring clients through webinars and whatnot, but like, we’d have these people who were like, yeah, we need more front-end sales, need more front-end sales.

And it’s like, man, you know, the most difficult thing to do in business is to start up from scratch. Meaning like starting off pre-stressed mean you have no audience. And if you can work with. Who has that already, mainly argument audience that you can market to? Like, you’ve literally just shortcutted 95% of like all the hard work.

And that was the light bulb moment for me is like finding the, any audience that you can market to like acquiring that audience, whether it’s like you own it, or you’re writing for that audience, that is the shortcut to wealth like that is the ultimate shortcut. And so many people neglect their audiences that they’ve already acquired because they’re so focused on growth.

What’s growth? Well, it’s all always what they think is front end. So that’s the light bulb moment for me. I mean, is that does that sound about right?

[00:08:55] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. Big time. There’s like, literally most of my clients they’re seeing multiple six figures a month on the backend.

[00:09:03] Joel Erway:

Yep. So what is it that like? Take me a little bit further down this, this, like this discovery journey. So you, you started working with this lady selling wildflower seeds, right. So, you know, doing her email marketing, like what did that look like in the beginning? Like, you know, was it like, Hey, I’ll just write some emails for you.

Like when did you start to realize, oh, okay. Like, there’s, you know, this is 1996. So like, this is not even, it’s like early stages of, of the internet. Right. It’s like, what did it look like back then?

[00:09:34] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. It’s had some custom PHP shopping cart script. It wasn’t really a brand name or anything. So I w like I said, I was doing pretty much everything, you know, the checkout process post-purchase optimizing the product listings in the pages.

So that actually really helped me because I think a lot of freelancers and copywriters, you know, they see themselves. Okay. The owner, the client gives them, like, we want to sell this product. We need five emails. Okay. I’ll do five emails, but there’s no emails can only do, you know, the first part to get them to the landing page.

There’s so much more involved. And so that helped me because I had optimized the whole process, which increases overall conversions, which you know, increases the results from the emails. So that helps set me apart that I’m not just turning into a Google doc and says, you know, good luck with that. You know, I’m helping throughout the whole process to increase overall sales.

[00:10:32] Joel Erway:

So 1996 you started working with you know, the wildflower seeds, right? Then 10 years later, you go to mech labs. You start learning about all this research and development and, you know, testing and whatnot. At that point in 2006, had you gone all in on becoming a, you know, what you call an email revenue specialist?

[00:10:51] Jason Henderson:

Yeah, email revenue optimization specialists. No, I was still doing the shopping cart thing. If you’re old school, you may have heard of me via merchants. And so I became, I was known as email and SEO and so through via merchant, I started working with comic books, art supplies, all kinds of crazy little niches.

And yeah, it just took off from there. I would say I started specializing in kind of like the email revenue optimization specialist slash product launch specialists in 2009.

[00:11:30] Joel Erway:

So what caused you to like niche down and focus on that specialty? Like focus on launches and, you know, email revenue optimization, like, what was that?

[00:11:40] Jason Henderson:

The trigger was, I just realized, you know, I was doing all this SEO and all this other stuff. When, like I said, the real money was on the backend. That’s where the, you know, the biggest opportunities were that people were leaving the most money on. And I, you know, if I focus my energy there, that’s where I can make the most money.

[00:12:01] Joel Erway:

Awesome. I love it, man. So 2009, you go all in on on backend, on backend revenue. And when was it that you had your first kind of like big breakthrough, like big win, like, Hey, I made the right decision. Like when did you know, like, yep. This was the right decision and because we’re talking 13 years now, Into your journey, right?

[00:12:22] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. So 2009, I get tasked to work on this project. This company had just done a multiple seven figure launch. They wanted to do a relaunch and they brought in Tony Flores, a Clayton Makepeace protege well-known copywriter to write all the eBooks, the landing page opt-in pages, the VSLs, and then want me to do the affiliate emails and the affiliate management.

So. What me and Tony found out was this was the worst relaunch in history. The product was very you know, it wasn’t tangible. It was about this opportunity to, you know, watch this millionaire for a year, becoming a millionaire yourself, but there’s real, no tangible what you get other than, you know, watching them.

And the list was abused that a list of over probably like 80,000 and it hadn’t been mailed over a year. So I really had to work on reactivating the list, deliverability, which again is going to impact how much she can make from your list. Right. And I finished top five in a John Carlton launch and top 10 in the Stomper net launch based on, so that 80,000 lists after we’re done reactivating it, engaging it, it was probably.

3000 people engaged that’s it? But those were 3000 hardcore people based on what I was doing, how is engaging them? The content I was doing, the emails, all of that. And yeah, that really started things. And literally the relaunch lost money. It was so bad. I lost money, but Tony got well-known because he had a think outside the box.

He was coming up with these crazy hooks. Everybody was excited, but when it came down to the final product, nobody wanted it. People saw all my emails and when I was doing, and they love that. So me and him kinda got known from the worst relaunch in history.

[00:14:32] Joel Erway:

So the, the relaunch bombed, but then after the relaunch were done, you were left with kind of like your hyper engaged list of 3000, right? Th this was your, your true buyers are your true fans, right?

[00:14:46] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. True fans. They, I would say it was kinda like 50, 50 prospects versus customers of the 3000.

[00:14:54] Joel Erway:
Right. So then you off the back of that, you go and do a couple affiliate launches and that ends up being really powerful.

Right?

[00:15:02] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. People are blown away that can’t believe, you know, I finished in the top affiliate challenges with that small of a list.

[00:15:09] Joel Erway:

Like there’s a, there’s a big lesson in that alone, just from people who are interested in this space. Right? So whether you’re new to copywriting or freelancing or marketing, you know, the audience is one thing, but the offer is also really, really.

Really important as well. I mean, like, you know, have all the great copy in the world, but if you’re marketing to a dead offer, a bad offer that nobody wants, like, you know, is that something that you actively seek out? Like it has to be, you know, like, was this kind of like that harsh learning lesson that you realize like, okay, like, Hey, the offers have to be, has to be a good offer, right?

[00:15:47] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. And that that’s actually what, you know, I kind of differentiated myself and stop calling myself just an email copywriter versus an email revenue optimization specialist is that I’m actually involved in the offers. Sometimes the copywriters use my ideas to come up with a killer bonus. Sometimes they’ll use my headline ideas because you know, I’m involved in the entire process because I want to make it a success.

And again, you know, emails can only get them to the landing page. That was also the time where I figured out that it wasn’t a competition between me and the copywriter. So I think a lot of people are afraid to step on toes that, you know, the VSL copywriter, the long forms, copywriter, you know, this is their territory.

And I found out working with Tony and I’m still working with Tony on projects today, by the way, she’s a great guy that they’re, they, they find relief. They think you’re adding value to them because they’re typically working on the back end. VSLs the front end, paid traffic, you know, the ads, landing pages and all that.

So if you can actually help them out, they actually welcome it.

[00:16:57] Joel Erway:

Love it. Now let’s kind of fast forward to like, you know, some of your, your more notable wins, right. So I know you did a you worked with revolution golf, right. And that. That did almost a half a million dollars, right?

[00:17:13] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. I’d already had a lot of success, but that was the first big promotion I did for them.

[00:17:18] Joel Erway:

Well, so tell me about that. So how did you get introduced to, like, how did you get connected? Cause that’s, that’s a big client revolution, golf. That’s not a, you know, that’s not some like mom and pop shop that you’re, you’re working with.

[00:17:29] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. They’re owned by NBC now. Yeah. So Justin Tupper, he was looking for someone who actually had mech labs, marketing, Sherpa type training, because he had already worked with the typical type of copywriters, email marketers.

And they had a big list, but they knew that they’re leaving a lot of money on the table. So they’re looking for somebody different who would go through, help them optimize their backend and really get way more revenue that they knew they’re leaving on the table. And so I had done a lot of stuff with them and they were super happy.

And then they came to me and said, Jason, we just got Gary player, like one of the top five golfers of all time and we’re producing his first product. So I did that. It was probably around $500,000. And so in the back of my mind, I was like, this is really good, but you know, Gary player had a lot to do with it.

You know, let’s be honest, you know, you got a lot of weekend warriors, a lot of amateur golfers’ chance to learn from Gary player, that’s going to impact conversion. So it doesn’t mean I didn’t come up or add tons of value and do a lot of things that helped, you know, increase the money, but that played a big factor.

So once I was done with that, then we came up with the first launch for a pretty unknown golf pro in Phoenix. He was really good. The, the list likes his free drills and everything, but the expectations after Gary player were probably half, you know, So I would say the early bird list for Gary player was about 40,000.

And I was told that man, they would be happy with maybe 200,000 in revenue from this new launch, maybe 15, 20 K on early bird lists and through, you know, my ideas and strategies that I had to come up with because I look, this is not Gary player and I want to maximize revenue. So I increased content. I increased value.

Is basically another word for demonstration in my mind. That’s what I added is more demonstration of this instructor’s abilities and how people could improve their games and enjoy the game more through his teaching. And it ended up doing over 60,000 on the early bird list and almost 750 K in revenue.

[00:20:04] Joel Erway:

That’s amazing because like, when you run any sort of marketing, you look at home runs, you look at like the easy wins and you kind of nailed it. Like if you have a celebrity endorsement, I mean, it’s like, you know, I don’t want to, I’m not trying to diminish it, but I’m to just fallen, following up on what you said, like you got to really screw it up to the bomb that like scary players, first product, like yeah.

Like you’re gonna get people to buy just because it’s scary player. And so when you say like, okay, cool. Now they enlisted you to write a follow-up promotion using a no-name golfer or, you know, a no-name celebrity. Their expectations were half of what they did with the Gary player, but yet you ended up doing over 750,000.

So what an extra 25 or 30% more than what you did with Gary player. That’s, that’s pretty incredible. Right. So can you go into some of the details there? Like, so for somebody who’s, you know, kind of unfamiliar with email revenue optimization, like, you know, how do you analyze one of those offers to kinda like set up one of those campaigns?

Like, what are the things that we have to really think about in order to position ourselves to have success with some of these projects? Like, can you kind of break down that process?

[00:21:18] Jason Henderson:

Sure, right off the bat, I wanted to Indra address anxiety in the amateur golfers. Who would you consider taking up this, you know, this unknown golf pros course?

And I came up with a bonus of three, one-hour live streams where they could go through the course and then have, you know, three hours of live Q and a live demonstration out on the course, you know, not talking head, but actually demonstrating the answers and that boosted conversions through the roof.

That’s like one of the top things that people loved about that offer was the three live streams. And then I incorporated live streams throughout the launch as well. And I doubled the content. I think that’s the key because I think a lot of people, they try things they don’t do well, and then they just assume it doesn’t work.

So the content thing, you know, some people love the free line. Some people say it doesn’t work anymore. And the people don’t say it doesn’t work anymore. They firehose people. And I’ve been guilty of that. I’ve done webinars where, you know, the host has just raved about, it said, this is one of the most informative webinars ever.

People are taking tons of notes. People are raving about it, but no one buys because basically they’re going to tell you, you’re going to have to take like six months to implement everything. But I can’t assume that’s how it works for everybody. Same thing with email. So rather than doing like, you know, two weeks of one hour live streams, I did a few, one hour live streams, and then we did a lot of free drills or essentially like one and a half minutes to two and a half minutes, but they could literally take that little drill, take it to the practice range and see a result like instant.

I think that’s the key is giving someone a small, actual piece of advice and just basically demonstrate that, you know, what you’re talking about. I think that was the big key and I’m still doing today.

[00:23:24] Joel Erway:

And, you know, if, if, if we could like, conceptually break it down, like, so if, if I’m a copywriter or a freelancer, it’s like, okay, cool, Hey you know, big Jason, I get it.

Like, I understand business owners have these untapped lists or these under monetized lists that I can, I can present to them and come in and propose to write some campaigns for them. How do we start that journey from a freelancing standpoint, from a copywriter standpoint? Like if I’m like number one, you know, let’s just assume I got a client here.

Like, am I asking that client, like, am I helping them come up with a product idea or. Do I approach them say, Hey, listen, if you’ve got a product that’s already sold, like I can help you sell more. Like, what’s kind of like the lowest hanging fruit from a copywriter standpoint or from an, you know, a someone who is looking to take advantage of this opportunity, what would you advise them to do to kind of get a quick win, both for the client and for themselves?

Like, is there a, what’s the easiest opportunity I should say?

[00:24:26] Jason Henderson:

Well, it kind of depends on what they offer. If did you digital products? That’s one thing. If they have an e-commerce that’s another probably this simplest with applies to most people is just doing bundle offers and just using holidays.

That’s like so simple to have a bundled offer for, you know, 25% off, 30% off. That’s another thing people are scared of doing low ticket offers. Low-tech offers I’ve done, you know, almost a million dollars in two weeks. So. I would say bundled offers that you come up with and you gotta be down with the research.

So the first thing I do with all my clients is get access to the help desk. I want to know what customers are saying, what prospects are saying, what’s their biggest pains, frustrations. Why are they not buying and focus on that? And then also going back to the past campaigns, what did really well, what didn’t and coming up with the low-hanging fruit is basically what are the most popular items?

What would people need now? So it’s like, what do they really need versus want? So you really want to go for what they really want. And then you add on top of that, what do they really need now? So you can use you know, holidays you can use, you know, world events, especially like survival, obviously based on what’s going on politics.

[00:25:56] Joel Erway:

How would I approach getting these clients from my prospecting list of like, trying to find my first, you know, email revenue client, like what’s a good offer to make them to say, Hey, listen, yeah, give me access to your database. And I’ll, I’ll help you make money. I mean, what are the key components that we’re looking for and identifying target companies?

[00:26:16] Jason Henderson:

Sure. Well, before the pandemic was going to live events, the live events are coming back. I’ve been to a few. That was my biggest ticket is just hanging around live events. You’re seeing the list owners are there. Masterminds are good. Niche, Facebook groups, you can find list owners there and it’s essentially, you’ve got, you know, They’re prospects where they’re hanging out and then you’ve got the, where the list owners are hanging out.

So if you find where they’re hanging out, you’re just basically listening, listening to the pain points and then you can approach them, like how much would it be worth for you? If I could solve that pain point and start bringing in anywhere from, you know, 50,000 to a hundred thousand dollars more per month, that’s just basically lying on the table.

[00:27:02] Joel Erway:

Is there a minimum, like list size that you shoot for? Like, you know, are you going after prospect lists? Are you going after customer lists? Like what’s the ideal situation?

[00:27:12] Jason Henderson:

Sure. Ideally, it’s customer lists of 10,000 or more. And I see a lot of people advertising, like their requirements to work with them, and then you gotta be actively list-building, but that’s, that’s the key.

If you’re get really good at optimizing the back end, you really don’t need. For the list it’d be growing. If you have a list of just say 10,000 people that are actively engaged, you know, you just keep on making additional back end offers and you can make, you know, more than a full-time income.

[00:27:46] Joel Erway:

So just to get clear, you know, we talk about customer lists versus like leads lists, right?

You know, a customer list is obviously a list of everyone who has purchased from you in the past. And you know, I don’t want to speak on behalf of Jason, but you know, it’s always, almost always more valuable to sell to somebody who’s already bought from you than it is to try and, you know, sell from somebody who’s never bought from you.

Right. There is like, I don’t know what the actual, maybe you would have a better idea of like what that exponential increase is or what that multiple is, but like I’ve heard anywhere from five to 10 times more valuable to market to a customer list than it is to a leads list.

[00:28:24] Jason Henderson:

I’ve seen it. It’s way more.

The difference is huge. And that’s how you can differentiate yourself as well is you can target their prospects different than their customers. That’s mistake. Number one on segmentation is people are blasting offers and every single email to customers and prospects. So what happens when you do that is that all the prospects are bringing your stats down.

And then when you try to optimize, you might actually get a better response from prospects, but hurt the angles, the emotional triggers and offers to customers. That’s why you always want to send to them differently. And that’s where you come in as an email revenue optimization specialist, you can sit there and say, all right.

So for the last three months, man, these offers for customers are really kicking ass. Let’s do more of those. But the prospects, they did not like this offer this offer, but they, man, they went nuts over this offer. Let’s do more of those offers for prospects specifically.

[00:29:30] Joel Erway:

Yup. Yup. So out of curiosity let’s say we were to target customers, like do do a dedicated campaign strictly for customers.

Like we always want to get that first, like let’s say we landed a new client, right. It’s like, okay, Hey you know, Mr. Freelancer, Mr. Copywriter, like, go ahead, like let’s, I’m going to turn my list over to you. Let’s run a test campaign you know, go ahead and target my buyers. Right. What would be that first step that we would do?

Is it we go into research or are we looking at like an old campaign that converted that maybe they just haven’t sent in months or years? Like what is like the most, a foolproof way to. Virtually guarantee you have a successful campaign right out the gate with, with a brand new client. Like if you were to pinpoint like one thing that would say I can almost guarantee that we would, we would get results with this, you know, what would that be?

[00:30:28] Jason Henderson:

Sure. Simplest way is to go back and look for the biggest, biggest campaign in the past year. How, how well did it do and run a sale? That’s it? Because people assume like I’ve done that, you know, probably two months after a sale, sometimes one month after. So because people mistakenly assume that all the people that didn’t buy this time don’t want it.

That’s not true. What happens in most cases is they didn’t want it. Then that doesn’t mean they don’t want it now because you know, every list has, you know, a customer life cycle and, you know, people need things at certain times, or there’s just not.

[00:31:10] Joel Erway:

And when you say run a sale, is this your bundled offer or is this running a discount to the product or maybe both or either, or how would you define like run a sale?

[00:31:19] Jason Henderson:

It’s both, it depends on the product. Say like for one of my e-commerce health supplements offers it’s a, you can do in bulk say, so your biggest seller is the individual pack. And then you do a sell you know, the six-pack bundle at a crazy discount digital products that can go either way you can bundle, you know, say like you, you’re a publisher.

You can do this author, this author, this author, I guess depends on your agreements with the authors that might get a little tricky. So the simplest way would just be the highest converting digital offer you have. And then just give this crazy limited time to.

[00:31:59] Joel Erway:

Got it. Yeah. So just you know, giving an incentive, the, you know, people already want.

Right. Cause it’s, again, you’re not taking the risk of trying to market an offer that we don’t know actually works. You’re taking that risk off the table and now we’re just coming up with a new angle to sell something we already know, we already know works. Right. Yup. Yup. So I want to go back to now your journey as you know, this mega star email revenue optimization specialist, right.

When was the first big windfall for you like big payday off a commission campaign or, you know, off a, a royalty campaign? Was it one that we’ve already talked about? Was it like the revolution golf was the one before that, like, you know, what was that first big one? That’s like, holy crap. Like this is like, I pick the right niche.

Like, this is definitely what I need to be doing.

[00:32:51] Jason Henderson:

That would be. 2010. So after the, you know, the worst relaunch in history in 2009 you know, I finished in the top 10 with a tiny list for Stomper net Stomper net then hired me and I was going to a Dan Kennedy conference in Dallas. And it just happened to be that the next big affiliate promotion, which we were actually late.

We came in midway through the launch for my keynote gigs. I believe it was the original main street marketing machines launch, and he happened to be a speaker there. So I reached out to him and he actually agreed to do a live webinar with me in his hotel room. So I literally he agreed to do it on a Thursday morning.

And I literally sent the first email outs about like 7:00 PM on Wednesday and two follow ups, Thursday morning. And it did over $360,000 in revenue. And that was another one where again, midway through the promotion we started. And I think we finished top five in the affiliate promotion. I think we finished right below Frank Kern.

So that was huge. I got a percentage of that.

[00:34:12] Joel Erway:

Was that with your list or was that the Stompernet list?

[00:34:14] Jason Henderson:

That was Stompernet list, but their list was, again, they just been beating it to death. It wasn’t the biggest list in the niche and they’d just been doing the same old affiliate offers. They’d never done a affiliate webinar, like.

And so yeah, they saw the value in doing those webinars. We did a lot more since then.

[00:34:38] Joel Erway:

Awesome man. Yeah. That’s like I wish that people could really understand, like the power is in getting access to the audience, like, right. That is your, your wealth shortcut is, you know, sure. You can go create your own product.

Sure. You could go out and be a hardcore market or sell your own services sharing about and build a big agency or whatever it is. The entire process of growing that business is the same. You have to put yourself out there, people got to know who you are. They got to know like and trust you. You got to build your own list and then go sell those products.

And can it work? Absolutely. I mean like, but why not just partner with other product owners or partner with people who have existing audiences and sell products. To people who already have that KLT that know light can trust value. You can bypass all of that because they’re focused on growing the front end.

They aren’t focused, which is crazy. But like I also fall victim to this. Like I don’t email my list nearly enough, like near quick enough. And it’s just like, even though I know it, I still don’t do it. And it’s because business owners have way too much other stuff to focus on. I truly believe that’s why lists get neglected.

And it just makes, it makes a ton of sense. And I’ve seen it happen firsthand. I mean, like we’ve done it for clients like we’ve made, you know, we had one client who I advise, I said, Hey, send this email out to your audience. So this offer out to your audience, you made $75,000 one email, and it was a brand new offer that you launch.

It’s just like, man, if you can get access to those lists and you can do that on your behalf, like you could be, you could be incredibly, incredibly wealthy.

[00:36:27] Jason Henderson:

And another big part of that is, you know, Peter Drucker who I love says adequacy is the enemy of excellence. So I could have been, you know, I’m a killer email copywriter, and just came up with, you know, the typical use the affiliate swipes, or come up with my own and just said, yeah, we’re going to send out these five emails and it’s going to crush it.

I said, no, how can I provide value and increase how much affiliate revenue? I said, you know, and I did the webinar, even though it was last minute, didn’t have a lot of time to prepare. I said, screw it. I can always send more emails after the webinar. And that’s where you’re going to make the most money where you you’re coming up with the ideas on how to improve the revenue even more than just simply writing emails.

[00:37:09] Joel Erway:

So let’s just talk in like realistic terms. Like if somebody is starting from scratch, right. And they said, okay, Hey man, I like Jason. They get it. Like, I want to try this email revenue optimization, you know, opportunity. Right. What is it going to look like for somebody who’s just starting out. They need to go source their first client.

Then let’s say they, they get a test project with the client. Like, you know, do they have to be a gifted copywriter? Like what are the skill sets that this person needs to bring to the table in order to fully maximize the opportunity?

[00:37:43] Jason Henderson:

An open mind. That’s one of the biggest problems I see with other email, like I’ve done big launches where they said, Hey, you know, if you need some help let’s go ahead and hire some more people to help you out with the emails.

And they’re very robotic. They’re like stuck in one way. They don’t want to try new things simply on baseless claims. Like for once images, you know, animated images are just like crushing in like several niches right now. And you’ve got, you know, email experts. I consider myself an email authority and experienced email marketer, expert tester, but you’ve got these other people that think they know everything about email.

They’re telling people not to do things that, that crush. So you have to have an open mind and the willingness to try and test them. And you’re going to see a lot of improvement and you gotta be able to adapt because you never know what your client’s willing to do or not to do. And you can’t just be like, well, if the client doesn’t do this, you know, I can’t do anything I’ve done.

You’ve got to be able to pivot.

[00:38:45] Joel Erway:

So as you know, you know, keeping that open mind, like, you know, if I put myself in the shoes of, let’s say when I was first starting out, right. And you had presented this opportunity, like, Hey, you should go, you know, work on offers for other people like to their list. The number one thing that I’m probably going to think of is like, oh, well, you know, I’ve never taken a copy course.

Like, I don’t really know how. You know, how do I write emails? Like, do I need to have that skillset or is that kind of a misconception, a misnomer like.

[00:39:15] Jason Henderson:

Misconception. Because one thing I did mention about my start is in 96, not only did I, you know, was playing professional basketball and working with this wildflower seeds, a lady in Arkansas, I was actually the about.com guide to exercise because I was also a nationally certified personal trainer.

And they taught us a ton about SEO because you know the about.com. They have guides on literally everything and exercise specifically was my, my niche. And so they teach us about SEO and they said, you know, you need to build a list and send people back. Those are the big ads since days. And literally the only thing that told us about email marketing was it’s like having a one-on-one conversation.

That’s it like literally I’ll be with a group of friends and two of the friends we’ll have a conversation. I’ll just turn to my friend that I know looks up to me for email marketing advice. And like, they just had an email right there. That’s it? That’s all you need. So that’s one, it’s like having a personal conversation and number two, like the great Eugene Schwartz said, copy is assembled.

Like literally your emails are just sitting there in the sales letters. You have these world-class copywriters writing, literally writing the emails for you. So you’re taking out certain paragraphs, you know, you can literally write an email based on one bullet and just expound. So no one’s ever hired me to write a sales letter in over 26 years.

None.

[00:40:47] Joel Erway:

Yeah. So like what, the takeaway that I had there was. It’s almost like if you are positioning yourself to be a copywriter you’ve already lost, right? So it’s like, you want to position yourself as the, I mean, you call it email revenue optimization specialist, but like, I like what you said there, which was, you’re assembling the right assets.

You’re assembling them to make it rain because all the hard work is already done. But what you are doing is you are coming in and from a bird’s eye view and you’re providing that second set of eyes or that the outlook to say, Hey, listen, you’ve got an opportunity here. Give me a chance. Let me, you know, let me put some different wrapping paper on it.

Let me put some, you know, a different spin on it. And let’s see if we can revive this and, and produce a, you know, a windfall for you.

[00:41:41] Jason Henderson:

Well, a lot of times the copywriters writing the VSLs, the long form they’re focused on cold traffic that’s in their minds, the big moneymakers, like some of them don’t even make money on the backend strangely enough.

They make it on the front end through cold traffic. And so you, as the email revenue optimization specialists, you’re in the help desk, you’re seeing all the responses, you’re looking at the survey results, where the copywriter isn’t, you’re going back to the past backend campaigns where the copywriter, he’s not even looking at that stuff.

And that allows you to look at the sales letter and be like, this is really going to resonate with this offer right here, this right here, they don’t care about this. This is the hottest thing now that I can use in my emails.

[00:42:28] Joel Erway:

I love it, man. It’s you know, it’s, it’s just so overlooked, you know, this opportunity for people who don’t want a stressful business, like.

In my opinion, it’s literally the least amount of risk with the highest amount of reward that you can possibly have in the marketing space, you know, it’s acquiring those assets and then understanding how to repackage and reposition these things for maximum value. What’s the typical rev share royalty rate look like when, you know, you get somebody to sign on, is it 50 50, or is it gonna depend on the products?

I’m sure if it’s, e-commerce like, obviously they probably have lower margins than say info products, but like, what does that look like from a royalty standpoint?

[00:43:13] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. I’m glad you asked that. Literally just came up a huge client in the pet niche has just recently came to me and we’re having a discussion about royalties and he came to me and said, look, you know, I saw.

Royalty proposal and we’ve talked to a lot of copywriters and they’re talking about 2%, 5% and you’re asking for 10%. And I said, well, there’s a good reason for that. Okay. Copywriters. They write, copy. Here’s the copy. Go ahead and test it typically, you know, better copywriters that want to their hands and other stuff, but typically that’s it.

And I said, that’s why me as an email revenue optimization specialist, my hands are in everything. I’m maximizing conversions throughout the entire funnel. The checkout I’m helping you come up with the right offer at the right time to the right segment of your list. And I’m writing the emails coming up with all the strategy I’m helping you come up with bonuses to increase conversions.

And like literally said, yeah, that makes sense. So that’s one thing. Yeah. That’s one thing and it totally my hands or my fingers and, you know, everything totally resonated. And he said, yeah, you’re right. You know, copywriters, they write the copy, turn it in. There you go. Meet. All over the place, helping improve conversions everywhere.

So that’s one, and sometimes it depends on what they’re doing. If they’re not doing anything on the backend, they’re neglecting their lists. They’re pretty much, you know, they’re open to 10, 20, 25, sometimes 50, but those are the extreme cases I’d say on average. I would say anywhere from five to 10 now, if they are doing stuff, then you reach a point where they’re gonna say, well, without you we’re averaging say the last three months, sometimes, sometimes it’s six months ravaging, you know, 25,000 a month from our backend email revenue.

And then that’s where you can say, great. I don’t want any money from that. Okay. But here’s what I’m going to do. I just want 10% of everything I bring in above that we’re 5%. So. Probably 99 out of a hundred. People are fine with that, but here’s the, here’s the key. So if you come in as an email copywriter and they’re saying, okay, we want to promote this product.

We need five emails. Okay. Here’s my Google doc. Yup. They’re not going to be willing to do that. But if you come in as an email revenue optimization specialist, you’re helping them with deliverability coming up with offers, improving offers, stuff like that. I’ve had clients where we have had 10% above, you know, their monthly average.

And eventually they’re just like big Jason. You’re like doing so much. Like we literally, every month sales, it’s literally hands off for us. You know, you’re literally working with our project managers, me as the owner. I’m really, you know, you come to me for a few ideas and get my feedback, but that’s about it.

You’re basically doing all this stuff. I would rather not have this accounting hassle every month about figuring out, you know, 10% above this and blah, blah, blah. I’m just going to give you 10% of everything. And I’m like, that works for me.

[00:46:40] Joel Erway:

I put a bonus there. Well, it’s a no brainer offer. Right?

Right. Let me help you grow your business or you don’t pay. Right. If it doesn’t work, that’s fine. I mean, there’s, you can’t make a simpler offer than that. And to get clients like that is what you have to do. Like you like easiest way to make, to get lines is make a no-brainer offer. What’s the no brainer offer.

Okay, cool. If I don’t perform, you don’t pay or if I don’t hit these goals, you don’t pay. Right. If I do, this is what it is. And it’s only based on performance. I mean, it’s, I get very nervous with performance-based structures in any other agreement. Outside of email marketing, because you can literally run very, very small test campaigns where, okay, you might be a little bit of time, but it’s not like you’re building out an entire webinar funnel.

It’s not like you’re building out an entire, you know, launch sequence with three videos and upsells down sells you name it, and you don’t know if it’s going to convert, you can literally run a pilot campaign with no sales page. And this, this is my experience. I don’t know if this is what you would recommend, but like your email can be the sales page, sending straight to a checkout just to validate the offer.

Like, Hey, do we have anything here or not? And it’s very little time out of pocket, but the offside is enormous, enormous. And. I love it, man. Like I would tell you right now, if I knew what I know today about this opportunity with email marketing, I would have gone all in on it. When I first got into this game in 2014, like that would have been what I did 100% because we’ve had six bigger wins with our clients running simple email campaigns.

And you know, there’s no risk because if it doesn’t work like fine, like it’s not costing them any money except okay. Maybe we have a few people unsubscribed, but like they weren’t doing anything with it anyway. So it’s not really, it doesn’t really hurt them. Like they don’t really view it as, as a huge loss.

Whereas, you know, you’d run a paid traffic campaign and they might be out of pocket $10,000 in ads, plus what they paid you plus all the time they invested. It’s just a, it’s a no brainer.

[00:48:58] Jason Henderson:

For sure. And there are ways to deal with unsubscribes and we can talk about later.

[00:49:02] Joel Erway:

Yeah. Do you want, actually, I want to, yeah. Let’s talk about that because you also have a case study where you made $2,000 from a launch campaign from people who said no to the offer. Right? So like, this is one of your ninja strategies that you’ve, that we’ve talked about in the past. So you want to go, you want to talk about that?

[00:49:20] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. So again, you gotta be able to pivot, you know, you’re getting to have clients that, you know, are concerned about emailing too much, emailing too many promos and all that.

So this one e-commerce Shopify store, this whole animal necklaces. And, you know, they were sending three-day campaigns, which obviously is too short in my opinion. And people think, well, you’re not going to have the urgency. Yeah, you are. You’re just going to have it at say Chris, three days to seven days, you’re just going to have their agency at the end of the seven days.

It’s way more money involved in that, but they only wanted to do three days to start. And what I found out was once somebody clicked, they were removing them. They’re like, oh, they clicked and didn’t buy. They’re not interested. I said, that’s not true. Let’s go ahead and keep emailing them. And then they said, well, they’re going to unsubscribe.

I said maybe, maybe not, but let’s do something to address that. Okay. So below the signature of every email, not right below it, but let’s put some white space. So typically we’re targeting, you know, I think it’s a good assumption. It is assumption, but I think it’s a good assumption. If people are scrolling like 10 lines down past the end of the email, they’re typically looking for the unsubscribe.

Or just bored, whatever. So I said, let’s go ahead and put in a few paragraphs saying, Hey, look, if you sure you’re not interested in these, you know, let’s say bunny necklaces I get it. Click the link below and we’ll stop emailing you about the, this campaign with bunny necklaces. However, don’t worry.

We’ll still keep you on the list and we’ll keep sending you amazing content, blah, blah, blah, or other offers. And then you put a link. Yes. Stop emailing me about the new bunny necklace connection, parenthesis. However, keep me on your list. So people would click that. We would tag them of, you know, stop bunny necklaces, you know, date, and then we’d send them to a confirmation page.

So the next two days of emails, they would exclude that tag. So they wouldn’t get any more emails about bunny annexes, but we just didn’t. This is the big mistake people are copying me right and left today. Hello are making a huge mistake. They send them to a confirmation page when they click that stop promotion link and they just say, okay, well, we won’t send you any more emails about bunny annexes.

Thanks. Bye-bye what I did was I cloned the bestseller category for the shop vice store. They had all kinds of animal necklaces, bunnies, bears, cats, dogs. And I said confirm we’re not considering any more emails about this bunny necklace promotion. However, here’s some animal next is that you might be interested in dot, dot, dot that’s it.

So at the end of the three days they had made, I think it was like $2,100 and were just. Wait a second, we made $2,100 and these weren’t like big campaigns that they were running. You know, if they may tank, Hey, there were happy, but they made an additional 21, 23 on people that said, you know, I don’t want any necklaces.

But then, so now they bought other necklaces upfront, but now long-term, they’re still on the list and they can buy other campaigns.

[00:53:00] Joel Erway:

This is a perfect example of what differentiates you from a copywriter. You’re an idea guy, right? You’re an experimenter. Meaning like you look at the holistic view and this is the value that you bring to the table or any optimization specialists brings to the table.

It’s like, oh, well, I mean, you have other necklaces, right. But you would know from your experience that just because somebody says, I don’t want any more information about this promotion doesn’t mean that they don’t want any more information about all promotions, right? Otherwise it wouldn’t make the unsubscribe link.

So it’s actually a fascinating example of engagement because this person opened the email. Read the email then told themselves, you know, convince themselves that like, okay, I’m not interested in this, but like the fact that they’ve gone down that far tells like is actually a very fascinating indicator that they are engaged.

And so it’s an opportunity to pivot their engagement level and pivot their attention rather than the only spot is unsubscribe. Now it’s like, okay, no, I get it. But we don’t email this email you about this opportunity more, but you are still engaged. So let’s pivot your attention towards something that you are interested in.

We just missed the mark on, or it’s just not the right time for you to buy a bunch of necklace, but your you’re interested in our content still. So let’s divert that attention towards something that, you know, will satisfy what you’re looking for. I think it’s like, it’s an awesome lesson in psychology.

That’s what you provide for your clients.

[00:54:38] Jason Henderson:

Yep. A couple more examples. So one of the top crypto companies in the world, they I work with them and they still use this today. They send them to the confirmation page and they have their highest converting $1 trial. When I worked with Caleb a doubt for over two years you know, he basically did affiliate offers.

They didn’t have their own product at the time. So what we did is we built his free Facebook group to over 5,000, just on people on the stock promotion confirmation page, we advertise the Facebook group and over 5,000 people joined.

[00:55:11] Joel Erway:

Yeah. It’s, it’s such a, it’s an awesome lesson for people who need to comprehend, like what you bring to the table.

This is a perfect lesson of what you bring to the table. It’s not just email. It’s like, no, this is a holistic standpoint on let’s maximize. The opportunity with your audience, because there’s so much that you can do now. I’m sure you talk about like a lot of this stuff inside of your course. So like, you know, like what are some of the key highlights of like what people are going to learn if they decide to move to the next step and say, okay, like, I want to become a six-figure email revenue optimization specialist.

Like, you know, can you give us an overview of what’s, you know what they’re going to learn in in your program?

[00:55:56] Jason Henderson:

Sure. So I basically give you my top performing campaigns, you know, from my 26 years of experience. And unlike some others that, you know, promise that these are top campaigns, I literally break down each email how much money they made, how much each link made, because you know, why wouldn’t you want to know what part of the email works best and what doesn’t, and to do more of what works best and less of what doesn’t.

And I give you the breakdown of the problems I had to overcome. I was new to the niche. The client didn’t want to do this. So I had to do that. The affiliate promotion, the affiliate partner didn’t want to do this. I had to do this and do that, everything that came up, how I came up with the hook, how I came up with a strategy, a breakdown of every single email.

And it’s in lots of different issues. So you get the swipes for all of that, and you get the best examples of, you know, opening a promotion. You get emails that made over a hundred thousand dollars on a Saturday with two days left in the promotion. Which is, which is really that’s where the gold is because you have to start the promotion.

It could be a killer offer and that lens, you know, to the success. And then you got the last day where you’ve got the urgency, that leads to a lot of success. So I’ve got a lot of campaigns where the biggest money makers are in the middle because I did my research. I came up with the hook and I really wrote an email that resonated.

And unlike a lot of people who say curiosity, curiosity, curiosity, emotion is like the number one driver of my biggest emails, emotions. So you’re going to learn all that. You’re going to learn about deliverability, reactivating your list how to increase your clients revenues by sometimes over 700%.

Even if you’re in the Gmail promotions folder, there’s a lot of BS about that. You’ll learn. What’s true. What’s not how to come up with the promotions frequency. It’s not, if you should email daily it’s if, as you should email up to five times per day, some cases, but again, you’re going to learn. The client says, no, we’re only emailing five times a day.

You gotta, you’re gonna learn how to maximize that revenue. No matter what, you’re gonna learn, how to maximize email content, come up with the ideas, how to sell with content. How do I give them that little nugget versus fire hosing them. And you’re going to get, you know, basically how to optimize the entire campaign, how to become valuable, how to make your client feel pain, just thinking about letting you go that’s you want to be, you want to be irreplaceable.

You don’t want to be email copywriter where, you know, they could literally go to any copywriting mastermind and get someone just like you don’t want to make it. So that’s not even close to being possible.

[00:58:54] Joel Erway:

That’s awesome. And you have a lot of case studies that you walk people through and I’m going to, you know, I know you gave me a couple of you at gut health supplement e-commerce store where You got paid.

I think it was $10,000. Plus, you know, 10% of of the promotion that you did, which ended up being about, you know, $48,000 in revenues. So $4,800 in in commissions. So there’s a $15,000 paycheck for you. You know, then you have another one with the you know, the animal necklaces that we’ve already talked about.

And that was the extra $2,000 from people who said no, $2,000 in revenue from people who said, no, you got the golf example that we already talked about. What was the total amount that you brought in from the from the golf campaign? It was $105,000 in revenue is what I’ve got on my notes here.

So that was separate from the Gary player and the that’s a different golf client. Got it. Okay. So this one, how much did you collect on commissions? There was that the six thousand six thousand seven hundred dollars.

[00:59:52] Jason Henderson:

I don’t remember the commission on that. The thing about that case study was the, the product owner said, Hey, look, for the month of July, the whole team is working on front end promotions.

We’re doing new VSLs new hooks, paid ads. You know, you’re going to keep sending emails, but we don’t have the bandwidth to do any promotions for July. I know, you know, you like picking up that big check, but, and if you come up with any ideas, don’t come to the team because they’re. So I basically had to come up with a content strategy and monetize it.

So what I did was that $105,000 was from content. And before that happened, I actually went to the, the tech stats guy and I said, Hey, can you tell me, you know, for up to this day, what’s typically do we bring in, in email content because I hadn’t really been focusing on not just promotions. And he goes, I dunno, man, it’s not that much.

Probably not worth me looking it up. And I said, no, really. I want to know how I improve. As I know, I’ll go to blankety blank owner and tell him that essentially we’re basically assumed that we were making nothing. So I’m gonna assume it’s not nothing I’m gonna assume maybe, you know, a hundred dollars, 50 bucks, an email of email content.

So I’m like fine. That works for me. I’ll get, you know, my percentage on everything that I bring in for that month. And. So it was basically, I did a live stream page. I basically clone one that we had already did. So they basically just cloned the live stream page changed the content ID. I went, I looked up the highest converting offer, put it below.

I looked up an interview, coincidentally enough, like we’re doing that. I came up with for the promotion and every day I would stream a quick content video, put the interview on the back end, and I added a drop down, which you would think that you have a single page for content and change that every single day, like keep on building new pages.

But I found that doing it on one page with a dropdown, increased the viewer. And the demonstration of the pro bike sometimes by over 10,000, like, no, typically we’ll get 5,000 views doing with the drop down because people are watching the video when they click on the dropdown, say, oh, I’m going to watch this one.

Oh, I want to watch this one. And yeah, that one just one month coming from basically zero did $105,000. And they’re just like, what the hell.

[01:02:37] Joel Erway:

Let me understand that correctly. So your, your content, it was just one single content page with a series of videos that they could kind of select after they watched the first one or whatever.

And then the offer was down below that video. Yup. Wow. You know, it’s like little hinges, swing, big doors, right? It’s like we all have the content for the most part, product owners have content readily available. Like we don’t have to create new content for the most part, unless it’s a brand new offer. It’s like, get somebody who’s smart and I can look at this for an external lens for you and put it all together. There you go. Six figure month that was pulled out of thin air legitimately out of finished.

[01:03:20] Jason Henderson:

Zero promotional emails, like the offer that the highest converting offer. I never sent one email specifically about that offer. It was all content go to the page content, go to the page.

Here’s why you want to go see this today. Here’s why you want to see today’s video. That’s it. I love it. I think we should talk about that gut supplement case study, because they, that was one of the case studies where there is like, they didn’t have a big list. The Amazon trash, their store problem with suppliers Google wiped out their organic rankings.

And be like, big Jason, help us. We need to pay the bills and pay you. So that was a good case study.

[01:04:01] Joel Erway:

Let’s talk about it, right. It sounds like the world was falling apart for this client. Right. Everything was going wrong. So yeah. Let’s dive in.

[01:04:09] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. So the product owner was also someone who is suffering from the same issues as a list, probably even more so they had a lot of anxiety, just like someone going through your checkout process.

You want to address the anxiety. So one of the things was. Upsetting her customers, because she was very, you know, I love my customers. I love, you know, changing people’s lives, you know, easing pain and stuff like that. So again, we did the stop promotion strategy. We let people opt out and this ease her anxiety.

And I was able to email more frequently to a live events again, quick 30 minutes, Q and a we did some cooking lessons and we increased the email frequency twice a day minimum. So that’s another thing people think that, you know, it’s might not be a good idea if people don’t respond to the email in the morning that you’re just emailing unengaged people in the evening, you’re going to hurt your deliverability Golan, subscribes, not true.

I mean, you just got to. Not every single person is glued to their inbox every single morning. And even if they are, how many emails do they have to scroll through? And I essentially would change the subject line, send the exact same email. And in some cases, in some clients, you literally make more the second email in that day.

So we did that. I permitted, you know, the standard things that you hear about the eyebrows abandonment. Like if they go to the sales letter and they don’t go to checkout page, you immediately follow up and just says, Hey, I saw you were checking out, you know, our, our fiber product. Did you have any questions about?

That’s it. And then you know, optimizing the abandoned basket series and yeah, like you said, it did 48,000 with typically they were making 10,000. So that was that like over three times more than their typical.

[01:06:18] Joel Erway:

Yeah. I think like there’s a big lesson to be learned here is that people have a misconception.

Just everybody. I think most people have misconception about email that feel field as a mass broadcast tool. You mentioned this earlier, like you have to think of it as a one-on-one communication tool and a lot of, kind of like what I’ve heard, like your follow-up strategies, like, Hey, did you have any questions with, you know, saw, you’re trying to check out.

Did you have any questions? Like that’s a one-on-one conversation, right? It’s like making it more personal. So it doesn’t feel like it’s a mass broadcast probably helps is kind of one of those secret conversion boosts.

[01:06:54] Jason Henderson:

Yeah, that’s huge because you know, I’ve done over six figures in abandoned basket series on big launches, obviously.

And, but even in small promotions, I’ve done over 10,000 and all my abandoned cart emails are customer service. Whereas I was working with a huge info-product business. They paid me to coach their copyright on how to write emails and it said, Hey, we need some abandoned baskets there. So I wrote some templates and he was at the same time being coached by a plus copywriter on how to write VSLs and this copywriter.

Where’s all the benefits. This, this is horrible. I’m gonna don’t test this, just rewrite it and put all, you know, so proteges and you know, how amazing the product is and the bonds that it didn’t do very well. Because again, there’s a lot of assumptions.

[01:07:49] Joel Erway:

Well, it’s putting on multiple hats, right? It’s like you go to any company that you work with.

They have a customer service department, and yet when you are a product or sometimes you get narrow focus like, oh, well I got to make sales. It’s gotta make sales. I’ve gotta make sales. And you don’t want to, don’t want to get bombarded by the sales person when you’re trying to check out like, like, Hey, you’re at the checkout line.

Like, you know, at that point, completing the process is all about just like, how easy is it? For the most part, I mean, like, obviously some people still need to be sold, but like there’s a high probability. This happens with every checkout cart. There’s friction in the process. And so I think adding you, having a customer service person come in and be like, Hey, do you have any issues?

Right? Like maybe it’s an international client and they can’t use their card. And they’re looking for PayPal. I can’t tell you how many times I get that email without even asking for like, Hey, do you guys offer PayPal? Because whatever, I can’t use my credit card. Like that’s a customer service question.

And I think that is so critical. Like if you look at it through the eyes of not just sales, but also customer service, I think you can open up just an enormous world of possibility.

[01:09:00] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. What you said is, is powerful. It’s typically there’s, they’ve got that one question. They’re just like, but what if..blank.

[01:09:10] Joel Erway:

Yep. It’s like, it might even be in your sales page. It probably is in your sales letter, but they just skipped it or they didn’t see it or whatever. And it’s like, just because you wrote it, there doesn’t mean somebody sees it. Like, and sometimes you just need to know that I’m talking to a really human and I’m not just living in this metaverse of digital, everything’s digitally not talking to anybody, which is a very real concern, by the way.

It’s an extremely true concern. Like, you know, with all ages, like all age, like people just want to know that you’re dealing with humans, especially in this digital age where everything’s gated behind a computer. And so if they can just know that I actually talked to a human. Boom. Conversions could go up.

[01:09:51] Jason Henderson:

Yeah. And related to that people wonder you know, how did you get 10 K base plus her percentage? And the reason why is because I’ve been doing this 26 years, I’ve had so many clients where, you know, let’s, for instance, one month they pause pay traffic. And then they’re not generating any new leads.

What if they have a small list? And then you’re, if you’re getting 10% and like $2,500, all of a sudden your monthly revenue went from here to here. And yeah, so that, that’s huge because you never know what’s going to happen. I mean, I hear some cases where it never happens. Like they’re always generating new leads.

It’s always awesome to have a lower base. And that’s great. I just find more often than not. They’re just going to have these ebbs and flows and. That’s another reason why you can command that high of a base pay. If you are coaching the customer service, like wait a second. You’re the email copywriter.

Why are you coaching customer service? That’s not your job. That’s a huge part of how much revenue you’re going to make for every promotion you go through. And you’re going to see, you know, maybe your client has outsources to the Philippines. I love people in the Philippines. I worked with one Filipino for over 10 years, but there’s just reading comprehension issues.

Sometimes that you’re going to see, they’re not giving the, you know, the best response and it’s not that much work. You’re just scanning through your writing canned responses. Hey, when someone’s has this objection, say this when I have this objection, say that stuff like that, you’re coaching them. You’re coaching them.

How to do the live chat properly. You’re doing all kinds of stuff, including deliverability. That’s valuable, it’s perceived as valuable, but you really can’t put in a number, but you’re doing so many things that are perceived to improving the bottom line that they’re willing to be like, yeah, 10 K is nothing.

I’ll take that every day.

[01:11:56] Joel Erway:

I mean, it makes total sense, man. You know, as you’re becoming irreplaceable, you’re becoming part of their business and you’re doing so in short cutting the process, which is, you know, invaluable, especially for somebody who is trying to make a living like this is how you do it by eliminating a lot of the friction, a lot of the hurdles and making a no-brainer offer.

It’s just you know, every time I talk about this or like from the, from the moment that I talked to you about this, you know, weeks ago when we started this whole conversation, like. We need to go get more email clients. Like it was it’s like, like any smart marketer, like any smart business owner, you find something that works really, really well.

And what do you do? You immediately stopped doing it, right? It’s like I mean, it was the highest, highest profit margins that we ever pulled. We’re running email campaigns. I mean, it was we did a $50,000 campaign sending to a segment of 250 people to a buyers list. It was a high ticket offer. We sold another high ticket offer.

I think, five clients at five grand, a pop. So it was $25,000. Excuse me, not 50,000, but we took 50% of that. Like we did a 50% rev share on a $5,000 offer. Like you don’t you don’t need many of those sales to make it worth your while. So anyway, that’s awesome, dude. Jason, we’ve had an awesome conversation here today.

I wanted to just kind of quickly recap, you know, a lot of the stuff that we talked about, like, you know, your journey in becoming and discovering this email revenue optimization specialist started all the way back in like 96, right? When you know, you were selling what was it? Tanning products. Was that correct? To edit at a tanning salon? Right?

[01:13:33] Jason Henderson:

94 was tanning salon in 96 was wildflower seeds.

[01:13:36] Joel Erway:

That’s right. 96 was wildflower seeds. Right. So who would have known, who would have thought that you’d go from tanning products and wildflower seeds to now generate $700 million through. Optimization strategies primarily through, through email and, and offers without writing sales letters, without writing sales letters, right?

I mean, it’s, it’s, it’s the shortcut I’m going to call it the shortcut to success. The shortcut to wealth is by monetizing other people’s assets, monetizing other people’s audiences, which is the hardest thing to grow growing. Audience requires the most work. And it’s also the biggest opportunity for those of us who understand that it gets neglected because we’re usually so short-term, short-sighted focused on getting more and more and more people in the funnel that we don’t optimize.

The people who are already in our, our backend. And so we went through probably five or six different case studies of how you generated hundreds of thousands of dollars, probably collectively millions of dollars, just from the, just from the case studies that we talked about. And we talked a lot about a lot of just like.

Very tactical things that if you do get a client, like these are things that you can implement immediately to virtually guarantee your success. Right. You know, look at past winners that they just stop promoting and wrap that up in a pretty little bow, a new bow that hasn’t been presented, a new, you know, an offer facelift or a discount, right.

And start to prove your value to those, to those new clients. So you become irreplaceable. And then when you are able to look and present different opportunities to them, like the no campaign, right.
What to do if somebody says, no, I don’t want this while sell them something else. Right. That’s how you start to become irreplaceable and not viewed as a copywriter.

I, all that stuff is so critical because. You know, one client in this space can easily make you six figures. Like you don’t even need multiple clients. You don’t need to become an agency. Like you can find one, maybe two good clients and they could possibly feed your you know, be more than just feed your family, but they can, they can make you a real, real good living.

[01:15:46] Jason Henderson:

For sure. You could be traveling six months of a year.

[01:15:49] Joel Erway:

Yeah. Cause that’s the other thing with email is like, you know, this channel isn’t going away and it’s also valuable channel for any audience. It’s like, you know, you can get slapped with all the social media stuff. You can get, you know, Google band, like you name it.

But those email assets you own like you own that list. You own that audience. And that’s a buyers channel. Like people are actively buying through email. It’s a trusted channel. And it’s something that, you know, is worth a lot of money and can be done anywhere in the world. Like it’s. Dammit Jason, like, I’m like, I’m selling myself on like needing to change your entire agency model and be like, okay, we need to, we need to start just refocusing on an email clients again, because it was, it worked so incredibly well and it was risk-free.

But anyway, was there anything that we left out that you want to make sure that we covered?

[01:16:41] Jason Henderson:

No. I just, we, we did a lot of coverage on some of the you know, intangibles and tangible things that I do that, you know, justifies, you know, a 10 K per month and a percentage. But you know, if you want your clients coming to you saying, what should we offer?

Because they don’t have time to be looking at past data and diving into all of that. So that’s where you’re going to become, you know, more valuable to your client longer is by coming up with the offers, coming up with the strategies, coming up with the bonuses and really knowing the list when your client doesn’t want to be doing all that crap.

[01:17:20] Joel Erway:

Yep. You want to be the trusted advisor. You want them to be coming to you and saying, all right, what’s next. Right, dude, we got this awesome cash campaign last week. What’s next? Like that’s what you want them to do is like, like give me more of that. Do it again. Do it again.

Awesome. So we’re going to have a link Jason, down below, either in the show notes or somewhere down below to look at more information, get more information about your course. I highly recommend anyone who’s interested in. And taking that next step building this into a six-figure a multi-six figure revenue opportunity, which does not require you to work 40 hours a week can be done anywhere in the world.

Email is all remote learning. This skillset is also applicable to so many other things in the world of marketing, but applying it to an existing audience is the fastest way that you can leverage an income generating opportunity that makes everybody happy. It’s the lowest risk. You’re not asking them to come out of pocket without paying for your services.

It’s an easy, easy, no brainer. Start getting clients. I promise you, this is something that you absolutely want to consider. So we will have that link down below to go check it out. Jason, appreciate you taking time and share your knowledge with us. And we’ll see you all on the next episode. Take care.

[01:18:45] OUTRO:

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