Experts Unleashed

PodHacking | EU 87 with Joe Fier & Matt Wolfe

Tags: sponsorship, content generator, hustle & flowchart, matt wolfe, joe fier, podhacking, affiliate marketing, Podcast

Podcasting has easily become one of my favorite ways to connect with my audience. I’ve done these podcasts for 4 years, with absolutely no strategic plan. Now, I’m looking for new ways to systemize and strategize.

Luckily, I was able to bring in two experts in the field of podcast-based content production to talk about the power of podcasting. Creators of Hustle & Flowchart, Joe Fier & Matt Wolfe

Joe & Matt started podcasting in 2017, and now utilize it as their core content-generator. Using their expertise, they have now built a well-oiled machine.

In this episode, we dive deep into sponsorship, affiliate marketing, and optimizing a marketing flow through podcasts. If you have ever wondered about starting a podcast or want to leverage an existing one, this episode is one you won’t want to miss.

Joe & Matt also share how you can get involved in their podcast course, where you can learn about how to leverage money with your own content-making machine. In the course they delve into the nitty gritty of marketing, sponsorship, and give you a ton of resources and strategies to help you through the process. 

Joe & Matt started podcasting in 2017, and now utilize it as their core content-generator. Using their expertise, they have now built a well-oiled machine.

In this episode, we dive deep into sponsorship, affiliate marketing, and optimizing a marketing flow through podcasts. If you have ever wondered about starting a podcast or want to leverage an existing one, this episode is one you won’t want to miss.

Joe & Matt also share how you can get involved in their podcast course, where you can learn about how to leverage money with your own content-making machine. In the course they delve into the nitty gritty of marketing, sponsorship, and give you a ton of resources and strategies to help you through the process. 

Click here to check out their course.

Click here to listen to their podcast.

You'll Discover

  • How Joe & Matt landed on their revenue model, and their plan of action [8:19]

  • Giving stuff away for free while monetizing creatively [11:20]

  • How newsletters and podcasts allow you to directly target promotion to an engaged audience [14:10]

  • How sponsorships work, and the model that has worked best for them [20:20]

  • Is social media marketing effective with repurposed content? [34:13]

…and much more!

Episode Transcript

EU 87 audio

EU 87
Joe & Matt: [00:00:00] You know, the Facebook group thing may fade away. It may be something else in a couple of months, but I think that’s the beauty of having a podcast is we’re going to be in the loop with whatever’s next.
Joel Erway: [00:00:09] It’s what’s going on Joel Erway here and welcome to another very special episode of experts unleashed. And today we have an incredible interview. I am super excited about, cause I’m gonna have a lot of fun. It’s always great when I can have fun on interviews. And I know that this interview is just going to be loads and loads of fun because we have Matt and Joe on the show today, Matt and Joe were on my other podcasts sold with webinars, talking about webinars and talking about growing all the ways that we can make money with webinars.
And this was probably back two or three years ago. I’ve been on their show and every time that we get to chat, every time that we get to jam, it’s just a lot of fun because these guys are the boy bands of internet marketing of digital marketing.
And I didn’t come up with that. They told me that before the show, so I’m going to roll with it, but. I’m super excited because today we are going to talk about podcasting podcasting as growing, you know, as establishing a brand and growing your brand and establishing your influence is what these guys have done for a very, very long time.
They’ve done it very successfully. And it’s something that I have not talked about on this show, and I know it is very relevant to those of you who are listening right now. I’ve done podcasting myself for. Four years now with no strategic guidance at all, and no strategic plan other than just going live and recording episodes.
And I have to, I will admit that it has been probably the single biggest revenue driver, at least from an organic standpoint. I mean, When you are ready to establish a brand, when you were ready to kind of like have that voice, your internal audience, either ways to grow with an external audience and getting new listeners.
But I use it primarily as a platform for my internal audience and. I know it drives tons and tons of leads for us. So anyway, that is my stick with podcasting. I love it. It’s a lot of fun. It’s my primary platform that I use to create new content and people love listening and you get a lot of affluent buyers to listen to podcasts without me rambling anymore.
Matt Joe, welcome to the show guys.
Joe & Matt: [00:02:29] Thanks, Joel. It’s great to be here. Looking forward to this. Yeah, man. Good intro because yeah, I have seen your podcast for years now. Listen, listen to both of them have there’s always two or have you had a third in there as well?
Joel Erway: [00:02:42] Uh, well, so I’ve done two podcasts and then I used to do like, Facebook lives, like rocking with Juul on social media and it was just too much content.
I was like, I was repeating myself. I’m like, I can’t do this much content. Like, I’m just, my brain is fried. So I just, I kept it to, uh, I kept it to just the two podcasts. So, um, it’s always been two podcasts though.
Joe & Matt: [00:03:02] Yeah, no, it’s it’s, uh, it’s podcasting is interesting. It can get a, you get this like creative bug, I guess, you know, a lot of anyone who kind of just turns on the mic and creates this little stage for themselves.
Like we’ve had so many podcast ideas over this year. I think ongoing. Yeah. And, and I say, what did I say the year? Like, we’ve been podcasting since 2012, 2010 is 2010 income podcast. Yeah. So it’s been it’s. I mean, we’ve had we’ve cycled through probably six shows or so now at this point, some, both individually or together, uh, it’s been kind of a ride that’s for sure.
But there’s finally a system that we’ve kind of put around this to actually make it a lot more. Predictable. Yeah. Rather than just kind of fly by the seat of our pants. Yeah. The longest show we’d ever done before this lasted maybe a year. And this show we’ve been doing since 2017 now. So it’s been, we’re pushing four years now.
Joel Erway: [00:03:56] Awesome. Well, give me a little bit of background about what you guys, what your number one, what is your show? So people can go check it out. And number two, what is your strategy and what are your beliefs around podcasting? And let’s talk about your system because you have. A system. That’s the whole purpose of what we’re, what we’re talking about here today.
So let’s give a little context, give you a little background.
Joe & Matt: [00:04:16] Yeah. Cool. Yeah, I’ll kick it off. Maybe you can talk about the philosophy and stuff behind here, Matt. Cool. Um, so our show is called hustle and flow chart and that’s it’s show it’s been around since 2017. 400 episodes in, and they’re like beefy episodes, not just like little snack, little bite-size things.
They’re like an hour plus, um, week. It’s just been a crazy adventure. So I’d say that show. It is our core content generator of everything we do, you know? So we record an hour at a time, usually with a guest, but we’re putting a little bit more individual shows in there. Or duo shows and it’s really freaking interesting.
I mean, there’s so many benefits to just expanding your network like wildfire. I mean, our just the last four years, it’s insane. The kind of connections and cool joint venture partnerships you can do. And just different things. We had equities now, you know, offered to us in numerous companies. Cool. Rev share deals.
I mean, it’s podcasting is just, we can go on about the benefits forever, you know, but. For us, we’ve seen that. It’s great for just systemizing our content production. So we have a nice schedule to put out. We repurpose that content into all sorts of bits and pieces. I mean all the way into our sales emails as well, you know, we can actually take all of these concepts and then format them into whatever we need to drive leads and sales from, you know, podcasting being like the top of funnel.
If you kind of think of it that way, it’s like our discovery engine as well. So helps a branding, like you mentioned, engaging and creating a community. Of loyal folks and then, uh, eventually into making money, of course, through the whole system, like you mentioned. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, with, with podcasting, it’s like.
We figured out a way to essentially make one piece of long form content. And then that long form content turns into pretty much everything else we do. Right? So we’ll, we’ll do a podcast interview. We’ll do it over video. So now we have an hour long video podcasts and audio podcasts, which could go into all the podcast platforms.
We then take the clips and now we have like little 10 minute gold nugget kind of clips that we put on YouTube and Facebook and Instagram, and those go everywhere. And then the content that we actually record in the podcast. Also, we have somebody that takes notes on the podcast. And when she takes notes on the podcast, that becomes the opt-in that we offer for free when people opt into our list.
And that is also the content that we put inside of our membership. So people buy a monthly membership from us and they get access to all of the notes. So the opt-in is get the notes from the latest episodes, but once you’re a member, then you can get access to the entire backlogs of notes we’ve ever done.
Plus any future notes. Plus, we get some of our guests to contribute additional content for our members area. And so literally our entire business starts with recording a long form, typically about an hour-ish long podcast video interview. And then it just kind of trickles into all of the social medias, all of our lead magnets, all of our paid content.
It’s the bonuses that we use when we promote affiliate products, the podcast kind of turns into everything.
Joel Erway: [00:07:13] How long did it take you to develop that system and what, so this is the revenue model. Like, so you, you built an own your own kind of like. Membership style revenue model with this podcast. Why do you think is really, really cool?
How, how many that plus affiliate marketing, but like, I want to, I don’t want to talk about the film marketing just yet, but I want to talk about this revenue model with the membership in the podcast. How long did it take you to like. Not only fine tune it, but like first discover that. What other, what other things did you try before you mentioned landed on this and then how, you know, what, uh, what made you stick with that so far?
Is this like, do you think you’re going to stick with this or are there more developments coming. Down the pipeline.
Joe & Matt: [00:08:01] This is a very good question. So I’ll, I’ll start with kind of like the overview of like why and like kind of how it all became and there’s some cool details. I’m sure you’ll dig into it as well.
So we had some what Matt’s referencing all these notes. It actually started off by being a newsletter. We used to write a physical newsletter, like handwriting it every single month, almost 40 pages handwriting. Cool. But we would actually personally write unique content every single month. And, you know, we were looking at folks like, I think Frank Kern had something out at the time.
Uh, we, you know, we’ve been watching people like Ben settle, uh, Doberman, Dan there’s, all these newsletter companies. And that was our first membership or continuity type offer in that way. But it became a burden because of obviously writing, we were writing about 40 pages a month is all original content that wasn’t on our blogs.
Wasn’t from our podcast. It was just about 40. It was a mini 40 page book that we would write every single month to our customers and get it printed, right. Printed and then shipped to their house. Believe that’s pretty systemized because we have a great fulfillment house that kind of handles that, but it was more on the creation where it’s like, okay, We are always late waiting until like the last few days of the month, of course, like any term or something.
So we’re like, okay, we don’t really want to have that every month. So, uh, w w what were you charging for that? It started around 50 a month, and then it went up to a hundred. Yeah. So after about six or seven months in, we were charging w basically we, I think we opened it at 50 bucks a month and every month the scarcity was it’s going to go up by 10 bucks a month.
So. People were in at all different price points, but the peak was 99 bucks a month. Yeah. I would say the thing that got to us, it was yeah, the content development, but I mean, like, we love creating content, but it wasn’t as flowy. Like, you know, like this, we can actually just get content out and create it really fast.
And then our systems kind of publish it, I guess. Yeah. So I did want to mention like the way the idea came about to re to bring back the newsletter. So we started the newsletter before the podcast actually, and then we, um, When we got really into the podcast, we phased out the newsletter because of the workload.
And then there was maybe like a year period where we didn’t have the newsletter anymore. And the newsletter actually came back as a result of guests on the podcast, sort of feeding us ideas on how to improve our business. We have a. Was it Brian Kurt, no Doberman, Dan Doberman, Dan on this show and he’s a big print newsletter guy.
And he started explaining some of his concepts around print newsletters. And we’re like, maybe we should bring this concept back. Let’s just be smarter about it this time. Yeah. Like we had the systems dialed it, like you said, print and ship and all that stuff fulfillment. And you know, it’s unique if you can land in someone’s mailbox at home.
I mean, that’s pretty dang unique still, even though people have been talking about it a lot, you know, like there’s no real filters over there and not a lot of competition either. For good stuff in your mailbox, of course. But. Uh, I would say one of the biggest things. So the reason we brought the podcast into the fold, you already had one going, it’s called the authority insider.
So what we chose to do seeing like kind of the stressors of running a newsletter business, we had an issue scaling it as well in terms of marketing the thing we’re like, we want to give away more stuff for free. Like we’ve always had this pull to that. That content wants to be free. It’s kind of like a mantra.
Over the years for us. It’s like, how can we just give more, but still not sacrifice monetizing, but let’s get more creative in how we’re monetizing. So that’s why the podcast became what it is, hustle and flow chart, where we can really dive in deep. But then yeah, that’s when the notes came around and then the notes are part of a membership.
So now it’s only $15 a month or 59 a year for an annual digital membership. So that. That was kind of the philosophy and the structures of how that thing kind of came around.
Joel Erway: [00:11:54] Cool. So now what the deliverable is with the membership is there’s no, Original content. Right? It’s it’s all just kind of like, okay, cool.
Like we’re giving you great content, but the value is like, you love the content. Let us now distill it for you so you can get it in a more concise format all at once or at your. At your fingertips, right?
Joe & Matt: [00:12:16] Yup. Yeah. So basically, uh, you know, every episode is roughly an hour ish. You know, we, we might interview the guests for 45 minutes and then Joe and I always do, uh, like a post session afterwards where we talk for another 15 or 20 minutes about the discussion we just had with the guests and some of our insights and stuff.
And the. Each set of notes for each episode is distilled down to about three pages, three to four pages for each episode. So you can basically consume an hour’s worth of content from the podcast in a five to seven minute read, essentially like here is all of the golden nuggets from this episode. And then also, if you don’t want to be sitting at a computer learning all of this, look, we’ll print it for you and send it to you.
So you can go and sit in your favorite chair, dog. You’re at highlighted right in the margins, take notes, whatever. And now you have. So, so what we’re selling is the time savings and the convenience of look we’re con we’re collecting all this content, but you probably don’t have time. To consume it all in the way that we’re collecting it.
So here’s another way to consume it. So it’s also a benefit for our guests as well, because they’re getting essentially they’re coming on the show. They’re getting featured on the podcast or getting featured on YouTube, but now we’re also putting that guest name and ideas right in front of them in their home inbox where they can’t ignore it.
Joel Erway: [00:13:27] Yeah. That’s interesting. So like this model is, um, this is definitely a mass market model, right? So this is like, okay, cool. Like, you know, low ticket style membership style, uh, going out to as broad of an eye as you can possibly do with this, you know, within your, within your, your market. Um, how, why. I guess like looking at this newsletter, right?
This iteration of the newsletter versus the $99 a month, 59 to $99 a month. One that you did previously, which one is better? Like which one? What are the pros and cons of both
Joe & Matt: [00:14:08] this ones? There’s another piece that I think we kind of skipped over as well. Is having this. So when it comes to podcast and you can get sponsors to sponsor your podcast, right?
When it comes to print newsletters, if you can get a good amount of volume of people on this print newsletter, that’s another opportunity to sell to sponsors as well. So this newsletter, yes, we’re only charging 15 bucks a month for the people to be on it. And the idea there is let’s go for volume. Let’s get as many people on there as possible.
Let’s make the price. So no brainer that they never want to leave. But now we’re, we’re more monetized off of the sponsorships. I mean, it costs us six or seven bucks to put the thing in the mail to people. So our profit margin is already like basically gone. Oh, I thought it was, I thought
Joel Erway: [00:14:51] it was digital
Joe & Matt: [00:14:52] only.
So it’s both print and digital, so you can get the digital access to the members area and you can get the physical one mailed to you. Um, and so now we’ve got this opportunity to put right alongs inside of this newsletter. So sponsors actually buy. Entry into people’s mailboxes through our newsletter. So the big monetization play, yes.
We make some profit off the members, but that’s not where most of the profit is made. Yeah. And to extract even more. So is we’re basically creating like a, a pool of folks. Like it’s kind of like the people that from the audience that listened to us all the time, they’ve raised their hand, they’ve given us money.
Some usually it’s monthly payments for the physical. Now that allows us to obviously segment those folks in a super unique way. Uh, affiliate marketing, like you mentioned, we’re basically promoters with everything we do. So now we just have this really engaged, cool folks that we’re yeah. We’re getting them in into the mailbox.
You know, obviously we have customer emails, segmented. We have a group for them, so it’s, it, it really creates a lot of interesting plays that we can do to promote very targeted things. Now that we have the attention in so many places. Yeah. I would say the $15 a month, first $99 a month. Right. So. $99 a month is a high enough of a ticket item that every month you kind of got to resell people on why you’re paying $99 a month to stick with us at $15 a month.
It’s almost like an impulse, like kind of, you know, people just kind of let it go. So there is that sort of psychology to it as well.
Joel Erway: [00:16:23] That’s interesting. So let’s talk now about like, because it’s interesting because like most of my audience, they’re definitely not in the mass volume play. Now they might do podcasting, but they probably do podcasting to their internal audience.
Your podcasting is. I kind of look at it, like blogging back in the day. Right. We’re if you’re trying to go mass market, you’re really focused on SEO and trying to leverage your content as that top of funnel piece. So a couple of questions, which are, I don’t know if you’re, you’re totally open to sharing.
Like, what I’d be interested in is like every time you launch a new podcast, like. What does that do for your subscriber, your, your newsletter base? Like, do you see a spike, every podcast that you release? Um, like, yeah. What does, what does that look like? Yeah, I wouldn’t
Joe & Matt: [00:17:14] say it stands very consistent because, you know, grow, it depends on how many new people are coming in finding the show.
So there’s, like I said, top of the funnel, it’s almost like, yeah, you have the podcasts now we’re doing more YouTube. So. That’s a new discovery engine for us. Anytime we go on another podcast like yours, that gives us more downloads, you know? And also it’s more opt-ins so those are the times I would say we get more of the spikes, but, but definitely there are certain episodes, depending on the guest.
It’s not always the big name guests. Like we thought it would be usually not the big name, usually it’s. Yeah. Usually it’s a very tactical episode from someone that like cold reached out to us, which is still kind of rare that will. That will give that spike. So it’s, I don’t know. It’s kind of weird and unpredictable in a way, you know, but our, our thing is let’s just be consistent.
Let’s keep doing the things that we know work and grow the audience and keep their attention. And then we’re always taking them to the next step. It’s not like we’re trying to do everything on the podcast. We’re taking them to, like Matt said an opt-in page, the way to get something for free that allows them to just go a little deeper and a little deeper, you know, So I would say the emails are really where we’re getting our spikes.
Cause we’re really buttoned up on that. There’s it’s super segmented as well. So we’re, anytime we do some kind of sequence there, that’s where we’re really seeing the spikes. Nice. So
Joel Erway: [00:18:34] it does your sales funnel. I mean, it kind of makes sense, right? It gives them, you know, from the Ascension model standpoint, which is.
They opt in for something free at, which is shownotes for one episode, right. Or the notes for one episode. So does that immediately take them to a sales page for the membership? Hey, if you like this one, like how about all of them, right. For 50, some odd bucks a year or 15 bucks a month, like, is that the tried and true sales funnel that
Joe & Matt: [00:19:01] that’s worked.
Eh, that’s it. Um, but saying that I would say most people don’t convert immediately after opting in for the notes. So I would say it’s usually, you know, I would say it’s probably about 30 days from the time somebody gets on our list to the time somebody becomes a member of that thing. Uh, but again, the newsletter isn’t necessarily like our biggest profit center.
Most of our money comes from sponsorships, affiliate marketing. Um, And now we have our pot hacker course, which we can talk about in a little bit, which is generating quite a bit of revenue as well. But, um, yeah, I mean the, the membership aspect of it is in our minds almost just like another lead gen thing.
It’s just like a, uh, taking a lead a little bit deeper and making them a little bit stronger of a lead essentially.
Joel Erway: [00:19:44] Yeah. Well, so let’s talk about that. So if the main revenue driver is not the membership site or the not, not the newsletter, that’s just kind of like one of your, one of your revenue sources.
Um, obviously you’re big on affiliate marketing, right? And so in order to be successful in affiliate marketing, you gotta have that large audience. And so where, where do you see for anyone who wants to kind of like follow this model? Like. Where do you really need to be at, in terms of a download, like a daily or monthly downloads perspective to really start to attract advertisers that are going to pay any sort of, you know, um, decent amount of, of, of money?
Like what, what does the advertising model look like? Cause I’m not familiar with it. Like I’ve just never, never tried it and never done it. Um, what does
Joe & Matt: [00:20:27] that look like? It’s a it’s interesting. So I’ll answer that question. I just wanted to say really fast that, um, not everyone has to follow this model or this isn’t the only model for, for this.
So we’ve actually, people have taken what they’re hearing now with how we approach monetizing and going more mass market. But there’s a lot of folks who just have a thousand downloads per month, let’s say. And they’re able to do maybe the same amount of revenue, or if not more, if they have maybe a consulting business or some type of offer, that’s very laser targeted.
Like yourself, you know, you have webinars, you have an agency, you have, you’re solving a specific problem. We’re obviously doing a little different, you know, we go a lot more broad. So it’s fun to kind of put that out there that this is just our choice in how we create content and monetize kind of blog style, like you said, but a sponsorships.
A lot of folks will get sponsors even from day one. You can pre-sell some of this, of course, if you have an existing audience that helps. So the existing model or the popular model that people think about is the CPM model. So that’s the cost per thousand downloads is basically what that is. And it’s typically 25 bucks per thousand downloads, maybe between 30, 25 and $30.
So you need a lot of downloads to do anything substantial. At least start crunching the math. So yeah. That’s where a new podcast, that’s not a good model and that’s not model. We choose either. We go a flat rate model and we look at our business or our, um, all these different buckets of audiences that we have.
Where we have attention now that becomes an opportunity to sponsor. It could even be just a Facebook group. You know, our newsletters, one of them, our email list, or maybe a specific newsletter we send per week in that email list. You know, we actually have a new one in the podcasting focus. That’s going to be like a weekly newsletter.
Well, that’s going to be a new sponsorship area that we could play in that helps us essentially cover our costs. That’s the idea with these sponsorships is just, let’s just cover our costs. And then anything above that is just. Free money essentially, you know, because it’s very simple once you have these things defined.
So we just basically suggested, we always say go flat rate, figure out where your audience is and how to make that look appealing to whoever the sponsor is. You know, that’s, that’s probably, that’s one way. I know there’s an affiliate side. You can do that as well. Yeah. I mean, what we do with the flat rate is we just.
We, we, we put together a bundle deals and that stops the normal sponsors from thinking in that sort of CPM model. Right? So we have our Facebook group, we have our email list. We have our, um, our blog that we can run banners on. We’ve got the print newsletter. We’ve obviously got the audio, we’ve got the YouTube channel.
And so now we can go all sorts of pricing tiers based on where you want to get. So we, we have that bundle pricing. And that, that is how we managed to like, from a download perspective, like I think we figured our CPM is more like. $200 per thousand downloads versus the normal, you know, 25 to $30 per thousand downloads.
So, um, that’s all because we’ve taken that bundle approach. And when people approach us and say, Hey, we’ll pay you a $25 CPM. We say, Nope, we don’t work that way. Here’s how we do it. And I think no one’s ever turned us down when we let a hundred percent hit rate where anybody who wants to sponsor our product gas, they’ve gone.
Okay, fine. I mean, even, even LinkedIn sponsored us for awhile and that was through a big agency, which the agencies know how the sponsorships work. And I was just like, cool. Here’s our doc. Here’s how we do it. Here’s what we have for you. Yes. And it was a yes, like no debate. So I think, and most people don’t approach it this way.
Like we hang out in a lot of podcasts community and don’t think I’ve heard other people going flat rate and it blows my mind because everybody has the ability to do it. You just have to kind of reframe how you look at the attention you have for people. And that attention is money. You know, you can do something with that.
Yeah, it’s
Joel Erway: [00:24:16] really, it makes total sense. Right. And so even to translate that into my world, which is the high ticket world, when we talk to consultants who are used to charging like a dollar per hour, like 50 bucks an hour, a hundred dollars an hour or whatever, and, you know, getting them off of that model into the package model, which has no, you sell based on the results.
Like, that’s a big shift and that’s kind of what this is. Like, you guys have multiple assets now and like what the, what is the result? Well, they want exposure. Right. And what you don’t want to do is you don’t want to pigeonhole yourself into what they view, like, okay. Yeah. We’re willing to pay $25 per CPM.
Like, okay, well, you’re like, that’s not how we work. And you’re also thinking about a completely wrong, and here’s why, meaning like you want a result. We have a targeted audience on multiple platforms. These are all of our assets. And so if. You want access to all these assets? Like, okay, cool. Like let’s, let’s work on a, uh, on an exposure and, uh, uh, uh, an exposure medium.
That, that makes sense. That gets you access to all these different things then. Okay, cool. Then let’s talk, but I love it, man. It’s like, it’s bucking the trend and thinking in terms of. Smart marketers and not even smart marketers, just smart business owners. Like whenever you get pigeonholed is when you lose your leverage and you never want to be rolling by other people.
What people like you don’t, you never want to be rolling based on what other people think the price is like. You want to get them to think in terms of what your value is and I love it. Like that’s, that’s awesome. So basically what you’re saying is make sure you have multiple platforms, multiple assets that you can.
Promote too. And that’s how you distinguish yourself and, and raise your rates and have better. You know, better rev, a better advertising
Joe & Matt: [00:25:59] revenue model. And that’s, that’s just one way to monetize. Yeah. Your content. And I mean, just to focus on the higher ticket, because we have a lot of folks who are in our communities that take our model more for the systematic approach and thinking it’s almost like.
Out of the box thinking, and we can at least study a lot of the guys like Jay Abraham, Roland, Frasier, all these people that are doing deals and things out of the norm. So we’re like, okay, how can we apply that thinking and put it here. So people who are selling high ticket, I mean, you kind of have even more of an advantage.
I would think like you don’t need a lot of people listening to your show. That’s the cool thing. You don’t need a lot of downloads, um, and you can make a very sustainable business. You can see the podcast as your Hey here’s where I can get new people to discover me, get to know me, really trust me at the same time, they might be telling their friends about my shows.
So my brand grows word of mouth is a big thing with podcasts growth. And then from there, you just give them a little call to action on every single episode, consistent is probably smart as not to confuse them. But say like, you know, maybe there’s an audit call or whatever, then you’d be better at this door.
But like the next step from, you know, like, Hey, let’s chat 15 minutes chat. Maybe there’s a, a free opt-in. We can even put them both on one page. I’ve seen that work really well. It was like for people that just want something free or people that just want to talk with you right now. I mean, you could be swooping up clients just off of that small pool that you’ve kind of created either with an existing audience or just doing some simple things like this to grow your new podcast, like going on other shows.
So it’s just getting creative and work in the system. Really.
Joel Erway: [00:27:35] So what do you guys recommend in terms of. Like the, these strategies of a podcast, like, do you, and I guess there really it’s maybe a loaded question. You can totally tell me it’s like, there is no, there’s no right or wrong, but like going with the map market style podcasts are going with the internal audience podcasts, meaning like your podcast is really designed to kind of.
I keep attracting new people in versus a podcast that’s designed to speak to your audience that you’ve already established. Like that’s how my podcast is designed, is to speak to my audience that have already established. They know, like, and trust me even more, it’s really not designed to be that wide net and SEO and all this other stuff.
It’s not really designed to be that growth engine that, that, uh, that top of funnel. So what are your guys’s thoughts on those two?
Joe & Matt: [00:28:31] Yeah. I mean, I personally think that the more sort of like niche down podcast where you’re speaking directly to your audience is probably more of a predictive model. If I’m being totally honest, especially if you can like, you know, sell on high ticket services and, you know, just the fact that they’re listening to your podcast is essentially them raising their hand saying this is a topic I’m interested in.
Um, the, the, the route that we went with our podcast was almost sort of something that we kind of fell into it wasn’t like. When we first started, we just wanted to talk to people. We want it like the, the original intention of hustle and flowchart wasn’t to make money at all. We wanted to, um, you know, to network with more people, we wanted to learn from people.
We wanted to get our foot in the door and network. And, um, that was kind of the original reason we started the podcast. So, you know, we didn’t even know if we were going to be getting listeners in the beginning. So we just kind of brought on people we thought would be interesting, that we thought would be fun to talk to.
And then, um, we, you know, luckily we had some email lists at the time already when we started the podcast, I had been, you know, I’ve been, we’ve been doing digital marketing stuff since 2007. So we’ve been building lists and audiences and stuff like that forever. So we didn’t start from scratch with the podcast.
So we were able to get some initial traction people like the conversations we were putting out. So we just kind of stuck with that kind of flow. And then figured out the systems as we went along to make sure we kept on doing it. Um, but saying all of that, I think some of the advice that we’d find ourselves getting to giving to most people thinking about starting a podcast is kind of like niche down and kind of find your ideal audience would be talking to those people.
Yeah. Yeah, it’s,
Joel Erway: [00:30:09] it’s funny. Like that’s kind of, I guess I’d had some sort of strategy. My first launch that’s the reason why I launched two podcasts was kind of like experts on lease was supposed to be like kind of more mass market, like bringing in people and then I’d funnel them into sold with webinars.
It never ended up being that. And then it’d just being experts on leash. I get to talk to some really cool people and. Build a relationship exactly what you kind of talked about. Like just get your foot in the door. And I, um, you know, it, it got me to speak with like New York times bestselling authors.
Like I started, you know, after doing it for about a year, I started getting lots of podcasts agencies to just constantly pitched me on new guests and many like 95% of the times I just ignore them. But then it’s like, oh, Jay Baer, Wants to come on my podcast, but oh, that’s pretty sweet that I had a Navy seal, um, Aldean, uh, Alden mills come on and I got to build a relationship with him and it was just like, this is pretty cool.
It was unexpected. And, uh, and it’s, it’s just fun. Like I love podcasting. I love it so much. And I need to give more love to my podcasting strategy because right now it’s just, okay. Let’s. Produce, whatever I want whenever I feel like it. And, uh, it’s um, th I, I do need to just put more, more focused effort towards it.
Cause it is like, it’s kind of like, you know, do more of what’s working in podcast works for me. Like, it just makes us. Money. It really
Joe & Matt: [00:31:46] does. That’s the thing, I mean, that goes for any, in most content. If you think about it, if you produce content on a consistent schedule and you have your audience kind of predicting when you’re going to give them more, it becomes, it’s like the TV shows you need.
It’s like, oh, I’m going to watch the Simpsons at seven o’clock. And, but, uh, you know, uh, but you have this like expectation and that’s what we’ve built. So we’re, you know, that’s, we actually started the show with that in mind because the previous shows we’ve had. Didn’t really have systems and that’s why they pod faded, which is the term.
And, uh, And like every single show we ever had. And so we’re like, okay, if we’re going to do this show together, hustle and flow chart, it needs to have like, we need a batch record. So we make sure that our, most of our recordings are done in single days, like a couple days a month. Yeah. And, uh, and we released twice a month.
Probably twice a week. They used to be once a week, we upped it. We’ve never missed a release, which is mind blowing for us because before that was not the fact that it was exactly what you’re talking about. It’s like, oh, whenever we want to record. And whenever we get an idea, but there’s, there’s so much power in the consistency.
When you get that trust with people. It doesn’t matter if it’s a small audience or a big one, but things like batch recording, just help you do that. Even if it’s a small show without guests. I mean, it’s just easier for you to kind of contain your time and then know maybe you have a week or a month’s worth of content.
You don’t really have to think about it. Yeah. Everything was very system-based with this, even this room we’re in now this office that if you’re watching the video that we’re sitting in right now, This was designed so that Joe and I, when we’re doing a podcast day or we’re going on, somebody else’s podcast, we could literally show up flip one, switch the switch, turns on the monitor, the camera, both the lights.
And then we’ve got a mixing board right here in front of us. You flip one switch on our power strip, everything comes on, we sit down and we’re ready to go, right? Like, so we want it to be so systematic that we don’t even have to think about all the setup before recording. We just flip a switch. Jump into zoom and we’re good to go.
And then, like Joe said, we, we, we do that batch recording. So we, you know, we’re, uh, we’re usually recording about three episodes about three times a month. So we usually get about one week off where we just don’t do any new recordings. Um, and that’s very systematic. And then even our intake form, when somebody comes on our podcast, we ask them, you know, what do you want to talk about?
What w uh, what are you excited about right now? Give us your bio. Um, we, we get a whole bunch of details. Uh, from, from our guests before they come on the show. So that part is very systematic. We already know coming into the show, what the guest wants to talk about. Then we have a system for prep before we actually go and record the episode.
We go to like listen notes, and we go to the guest LinkedIn account and we create a document and you can’t see it on camera, but Joe and I both have laptops sitting in front of us. So we’ve got notes right next to us at any given time about the guests that we’re talking to. So everything was designed where we show up, sit down, go, content is done for the month.
Joel Erway: [00:34:45] I want to talk about the marketing engine behind this. So I had a content. I built a content marketing team last year, beginning part of last year, where we did tons of social media, like content marketing and. We built an engine, literally. I mean, it was, I create a Facebook live. They take it, they do a whole bunch of stuff, promote it, et cetera, et cetera.
Um, you know, we did the same thing with a podcast, repurpose it, et cetera, et cetera. How effective do you guys find in social media marketing with all the repurposed content? Because to be honest, I didn’t see it as a super effective use of. My team’s resources and my resources. And so we ended up, I stopped doing it and didn’t see a huge drop in performance.
What is your input on that? Because it can be a lot of work to get it repurposed and posted on all these different social media platforms. So. And
Joe & Matt: [00:35:47] it’s your take on it. Yeah. Yeah. It could be expensive or with your own time or your team’s time or hire someone else probably even more, uh, our take is kind of what you’ve said is, you know, we’ve tried so many different platforms like Instagram, for instance, like, yeah, for us, at least we’ve never gotten Instagram to work for us.
There’s a traffic driver and like, yeah, there might be vanity metrics or whatever you can do over there, but in terms of. Yeah, it might be more of a branding play. Let’s say, you know, I would definitely be strategic with where you put your content. So we don’t spread it all over the web anymore. Like that.
We make the specific pieces for, you know, our Facebook groups are, are good to put in there and that’s always very good. Um, Facebook ads we’ll use them for those, you know, and usually these are all the same assets by the way. Um, there’s like different size images is what we always create for every episode.
And then we have been doing a lot on video now. So YouTube is kind of the. The newer endeavor that we’re putting most of our energy into. And that’s primarily someone on our team, uh, our content manager who does that for us, but that’s starting to work where there’s full length episodes and then shorter kind of clips about four minutes long.
Well, the thing is too, is like, we’re mostly focused on the audio for, you know, iTunes, Spotify. All the places people listen to podcasts and we’re focused on the video for YouTube. And that’s really the only kind of two platforms we focus on. We have our Facebook group as well. So that’s, that’s kind of a third platform that we put some attention into, but really we’re focused on making the videos for YouTube, but YouTube, we have one long form video, which is, you know, pretty much the whole interview.
We do. We pull out clips of just kind of like some gold nuggets and we post the clips to YouTube. And then now we’re doing YouTube shorts, which is just like little one minute or less sound bites from the episodes. And the cool thing about doing that, where you’ve got like the hour 10 minute and 62nd video is those videos were not really focused on Instagram or LinkedIn or some of these other platforms.
But since we have this content, we’ll, we’ll throw them on those places and sometimes they’ll get some traction. They’re usually not usually. Yeah, we don’t even see any sort of reaction to them at all. They’re just kind of floating there, but we’re focused on building up for YouTube. And since we have them, we are putting them in those places as well.
Um, I think the, the, the big, the best use of the sort of shorter videos has actually been putting them on Facebook and just running ads to them and just letting the ads run as like a branding play and awareness play. Um, what we were doing for a little while. It’s not as effective now because of all of the, you know, cookie apocalypse stuff that’s been happening lately on Google Chrome.
And, you know, iOS, uh, was at 14.5 or whatever. Um, it’s not as effective anymore, but whenever somebody came to our website, We would just retarget them and just start showing them clips from our podcast, not even any calls to action, just like here’s another clip from our podcast. Here’s another clip from our podcast.
And what that was doing was whenever we went to conferences, whenever we got on a phone call with somebody, we were getting the comments like, holy crap, I can’t get away from you guys. Your content is everywhere. And we were, we were running like $20 a day budgets on that kind of stuff. Yeah. So it’s not like we were spending, you know, 20 grand a month to be everywhere.
We were just, re-targeting the people who knew about us already and it made it look like we were everywhere to those people.
Joel Erway: [00:38:56] Yeah. You know, it’s funny you say that because I did the same thing. I didn’t, I don’t think I did podcast episodes as retarding. Just kind of like. Interesting pieces of content that I would retarget and run a dollar a day.
Like the, um, Dennis used strategy, a dollar a day, uh, you know, retargeting. And I don’t know what it is about a dollar a day, but. Like I get so much leverage out of a dollar to it. I stopped doing it. I don’t know why I stopped doing it. I need to do that again, because that was so worth it. So worth it because just top of mind, being in front of you all the freaking time with just great content, you know, here’s a, you know, here’s.
Whatever right. It could be authority pieces. It could be brand building. I definitely need to do that again. I turned that off a while ago, but yeah, 100%. I need to do that again.
Joe & Matt: [00:39:47] Uh, if you can, you can start feeding in like, um, videos that promote affiliate products as well into that same mix and the people that are kind of used to seeing you everywhere.
Now they’re getting some affiliate videos trickled in front of them as well. And you’ve kind of. You know, I don’t like to use this word, but you’ve kind of trained them to see and watch some of your videos. And now you can start splitting sprinkling and affiliate videos at a dollar a day too. And now you’ll see consistent, just kind of like random sales on some of the affiliate products you have in the mix as well at a buck a day.
So yeah, it’s a really, really effective strategy. Yeah.
Joel Erway: [00:40:19] Th th the two things that worked really well to help with my podcasts, like just getting more eyeballs on my podcast, I would definitely say it was that like, just simple dollar day rebrand, like remarketing strategies with ads, nothing on social media, like posting on my Facebook wall.
Yeah. I mean, like, you wouldn’t think that that would be the case, but, um, like Instagram didn’t work. We posted everywhere and I know that nobody was like, Nobody was watching. Oh, you ain’t got no reactions, but, um, an email, it was email and Facebook ads. That’s where, that’s what DRO drove the most, uh, downloads listens.
And then just, you know, once they subscribe to the podcast, obviously that was
Joe & Matt: [00:41:01] right, right. They would have organic, like organic traffic from social media. We’ve had pretty much the same experience. The one thing I will say is that when we started a Facebook group around our podcasts, And now we feed, you know, clips and the links to the various episodes from our group.
Our group itself actually will drive traffic, but posting to our personal profile. I mean, Facebook fan pages are pretty much worthless for anything other than just using them to run ads from these days. But, um, the, the, the Facebook groups will actually get us some engagement on our, on our stuff now because we have a.
An interactive enough community where they actually still get some reach inside of those groups for any, any podcast. Yeah. Having a Facebook group and other place to kind of contain the community. You know, the folks that are raising their hand and want a little bit more talk with us or talk with the community.
I would highly recommend creating one of those branded like your show. So it’s the seamless move over from audio to there. For like what three years? I think we had, we had like an old evergreen profits, which is our company name. That was what it was. And it was like this disconnect from hustle and flowchart.
Like the colors were different. The logos who’s likely where, where am I now? And we had to tell people to go there. So now we have like the call to action on our podcast. It’s flowchart group.com. That’s the URL. It’s just a redirect to our Facebook group. But at the same time in those questions, when you know that you can ask boats when they join a group, uh, one of them is asking for their email address to get those free notes.
So that’s actually like the mechanism to email, but also get them into a Facebook group. So we have them in that area as well. So
Joel Erway: [00:42:38] yeah, I will say, yeah, the, our Facebook group did drive some traffic to it as well. You just gotta be, if Facebook is so finicky now, especially with groups like. Anytime you post a link, an outbound link, like in your post embedded in your posts.
Like they throttle the reach completely. Now they’re like filtering my, my messages. Like they’re, they’re like, they’re, um, like they’re not even allowing me to post, like they get flagging them as sales messages and they had to review them. And so I’m like, oh God. So who knows how long. Facebook groups will be effective, but they are very powerful if you build a good community and I’m horrible at building a good community, like I just, I’m horrible at managing and you got to manage it.
You’ve got to maintain a group and, and keep it active. And, uh, but we do, we still get some, I forgot about Facebook groups. We do get traction with Facebook groups.
Joe & Matt: [00:43:25] It could be great for you. I mean, I know a lot of folks that have groups that are growing even organically and it’s targeted. So it’s like.
Yeah. I mean, we haven’t experienced of what you said, but like, we don’t get organic growth, I don’t think from Facebook itself, but if you’re, if you haven’t niched down there and it’s, you know, kind of broad and Facebook, I guess doesn’t flag it for salesy stuff. Then you’re probably going to do all right.
You know, at least try it out. Yeah. Redundancy is the key. There are many ways to market your podcast gives if any, one of them goes up in flames, then, you know, you want to have some other sources to, to, uh, drive traffic from. So, you know, the Facebook group thing may fade away. It may be something else in a couple months, but I think that’s the beauty of having a podcast is we’re going to be in the loop with whatever’s next.
Joel Erway: [00:44:10] Yeah, that’s awesome guys, man, every time God, I got to show off my shiny object, but like, it’s like, I need to just refocus and, and, uh, refocus on my podcast, but I still do. I do tons of solo episodes with sold webinars. I have found if you, like, if you are selling high ticket or like, if you’re driving this personally to your own personal brand and your own personal services, um, I found that, uh, the solo episodes are super powerful at establishing your authority and becoming that thought leader.
And building that trust. When I first started sold webinars, it used to be all podcast interviews, and I’m like, I kind of like, just got burned out by doing podcasts interviews. I’m like, I need to produce more content. So I just started doing solo episodes. And as soon as I started doing solo episodes, like.
They were commenting. Like, do I love your solo episodes? Keep doing more. So now it’s like 95, five, you know, solos to interview and, um, Yeah, we’re doing experts.
Joe & Matt: [00:45:15] What’s that? We’re doing the same thing. We’re starting to work. I mean, we always did one episode a month without a guest. It was just me and Joe.
We’ve done that for years, but we’ve gotten similar feedback. There’s people who love it when it’s just us two, when we don’t have a guest on. So we’ve added in a second per month now, but we’re going to. We’re we’re going to get to the point where it’s 50, 50, half of our calls are interviews. Half of our calls are no guests.
We want it to now because we have more fun. And then we get the same exact thing you have. People are like, we want more of you guys, you know, like, yeah. And
Joel Erway: [00:45:41] I think there’s, there’s a lot to that. And also with more people jumping into podcasting space, I think there’s just tons of podcasts interview.
Shows. And it’s like, okay, like, you know, especially with the, with the authors are just making the rounds, you know, they’re, you know, they’re like promoting their book or somebody who’s promoting whatever they’re doing. Like they hit all the same shows and it’s like, okay, there’s definitely a need for.
Great solo episodes and yeah, we exploded. I don’t want to say exploded, but like we saw a huge uptick in conversions and leads coming in when I started doing more, um, more, more solos, but there’s a good balance. Like, you know, people still want, you know, if they trust you, they also want to hear how you interact with other guests.
So there’s definitely a balance that your audience, any audience
Joe & Matt: [00:46:30] will, will enjoy. Right. That’s the authority side of things too. You know, it is still borrowed authority. When you can bring someone who seems like untouchable or like, whoa, like that’s a speaker that normally it’s like, well, you know, it’s people really aren’t that difficult to bring onto a podcast or dirty secret of podcasts.
Like no guest is unreachable. He’s not really like, we can get anybody, but sometimes we might have to pay like, you know, give something to their charity or something like that. But yeah. There’s nobody that we can’t get. It’s true. I think everybody over-complicates that. Yes. Yeah. And that’s, that was actually the reframe got to give Roland some credit to that.
Cause like, you know, he helps run traffic and conversion. So he was like, okay. So if you want some guests just remember, you can always pay for them. You can always put it out there and say, Hey, I would love to donate on your behalf to somewhere or pay for your time. And because that’s how they’re getting people, you know, like the big names.
So it’s. You can do the same in your own little stage yourself because that’s all you’re really doing. You’re just building another stage. It’s another platform. That’s how we’ve always seen it. You’re leveraging other platforms like apple, Spotify to grow. But if you can contain people in your own little ecosystem here, you can do some cool stuff.
Just pair it up to your business model. You don’t need to reinvent anything.
Joel Erway: [00:47:42] Love it guys. So I know you guys have your own course on podcasting and like setting this up and talking about all the different ways that you can leverage podcasts, make money with podcasts. Like let’s talk about that.
Joe & Matt: [00:47:54] Yeah, man.
Yeah. Thank you. Good. So it’s called pod hacker. Um, it’s uh, it’s at pod hacker.com and essentially what it is is. We never actually set out to make a course. Like we were pretty happy with our business model, just podcasting and, and then generating revenue off of affiliate, marketing and sponsorships. Um, we always, we, we kind of.
Ben happy with that for as long as we can remember, but we’ve had so many people reach out to us and say, Hey, you guys do things so much differently than everybody else. You guys are just like, you’re on another level when it comes to affiliate marketing and podcasting, and we just kept on getting this, this kind of feedback.
Like you need to teach this stuff. And so we actually sort of be grudgingly created this course. Like we didn’t really want to create this course because, um, you know, it’s extra work on our plates and we’re lazy. Um, but no, we like our lifestyle. We’ll just say that. So, so basically what pod hacker is is, is just this kind of peek behind the curtains, where we literally map out everything.
Um, we even give all of our templates, all of our frameworks. Uh, the, the emails that go out to get guests on the show, the emails that go out after we recorded the emails that go out to tell them that they’re live, we give you all those templates. The questionnaire that we ask people when they booked to be on our show, we give you that are our frameworks for doing the, um, the batch recording, the, the research before the podcast, what equipment you should use on both like, uh, Uh, very inexpensive ranging all the way up to like, if you want to go pro level, here’s what we’d get.
And it’s literally just pulling back the curtain here is everything that we do in our business. It covers all of the affiliate marketing we do off the back of our podcast. All of the sponsorships. We literally give you the contracts. So, Hey, do you want to go get sponsors? Send them this contract when they agree and it’s already pre-written for you.
Just change it to your name, the name of your podcast. Uh, we give you the outreach emails to reach out and get sponsors. We, uh, we, we teach the affiliate marketing strategies, the SEO strategies that we use to bring people in through Google. It’s literally. Every question anybody’s ever asked us about our podcasts, sort of our podcast, affiliate marketing sponsorship strategy.
It’s just all laid out and mapped and sort of like a step-by-step framework that anybody can follow. And that’s what pod hackers, and I will say we’re also bringing in other perspectives too. So other guests trainers. So it’s not just us. I think that is the big thing that we were like, if we’re going to build this.
Yeah, we’ll put our frameworks and things that people say that they want to hear, but we also want to bring the perspectives of folks like even yourself, Joel, like you’re, you’re doing a whole different type of show. You have an expertise that podcasters can take. So, you know, like that’s the kind of thing.
We have monthly calls with a new expert every month. Um, no extra charge or anything like that. It’s just kind of. It’s another form of podcasting for us. So we just light up and we love to share this stuff. So yeah. Pod hackers,
Joel Erway: [00:50:39] I’m on your sales page. Uh, your course page right now. It’s like, it’s so funny.
I see so many of my friends on here, like as testimonials, like I scroll to the bottom. I see Ryan Lee. That’s Schefren I see Dean Hollins, ugly mug, um, video.
Joe & Matt: [00:50:56] What was that? We go way back with Dean. We all started around in the digital marketing space at the same time. So we were all newbies together. I love Dean.
Joel Erway: [00:51:06] Yeah. This is awesome, man. I mean, it’s it’s so it’s so funny. Like, you know, you, um, like you, uh, you go to the digital course world and like, you can. You can get the flakes and you can get, you know, the, the courses that are just totally like flimsy and just thrown together, um, that are not really worth their weight in gold.
It’s like, this is soup. Like we already know that your stuff is legit, right? I mean, there’s no, there’s no doubt about, you know, the content that’s inside. When you guys are speaking, it looks like you’ve got, um, Uh, it looks like you’re on stage with Ryan dice. What does that digital marketers conference or, or room.
Oh, nice. Nice. So yeah, you guys are at, uh, you guys are speaking at war room. I mean, this is like a legit legit program. So, um, yeah, if you guys are, are interested in podcasting and leveraging podcasting as a business model or as an alternative, or, uh, that’s, uh, you know, building your authority, building your brand and these guys.
This is who you go to, right? I mean, you look at every solid, you know, big name, marketer, Roland, Frasier, Ryan Deiss, rich Schefren. Um, Ryan Lee, I mean, James Schramko. These are all guys who were on the sales page. You’ve got the authority, you’ve got the trust and knowing that. These guys know what they’re talking about and how many episodes have you done so far?
500 with this, with this podcast. This show
Joe & Matt: [00:52:31] we’re approaching 400. Yeah. Nice. We’re getting there enough.
Joel Erway: [00:52:36] And how many podcasts did you have beforehand?
Joe & Matt: [00:52:39] Ooh, five or six, five or six. Yeah. I had a couple with some other co-hosts Joe and I have had a couple together before this. I’ve had one with a different co-host I’ve done a couple of solo shows.
So if you put them all together, it’s six or seven podcasts podcasts. We, our first show is back in 2010. So we’ve been podcasting now for over a decade, just. Not all consecutively. I’d say the key too is you don’t need all the cool, fancy gear, like Madeline’s showing off here, or even what you have, Joel, because I’ve seen your studio.
You’re fricking the cockpit you got there. It’s wild. It’s called a battle station, battle station, whatever, but it’s. You don’t need that. Like, there’s a, there’s just, you know, very inexpensive mics and things, obviously USB just hook it up to your laptop or whatever you’re already using. I mean, back in the day, we were very embarrassed that we still showed some of these pictures, but we had used mattresses to prop up.
Some of these like Yeti snowball Mike’s I think the Yeti Mike blue snowball. That’s what it is, but yeah. I mean, you don’t even to stop, just skip the thing, start out ugly.
Joel Erway: [00:53:42] Yeah. So I started, yeah, it was a blue, blue snowball. Yep. Um, that was it. For sure. It was like, was fun.
Joe & Matt: [00:53:49] Yeah. We had a snowball and we literally had them feeding into two separate computers and we would record our podcasts that way and then go merge the two audios later.
That’s how we started, but it was amazing. Yeah.
Joel Erway: [00:54:03] So go check it out. You guys pod hacker.com. Uh, Matt and Joe, or. Are legit. There’s so much fun. I love jamming with them. I love having them on a podcast or being on their podcasts. Like we’ve had so much fun together. At least I think we’ve had so much fun together.
I’ll speak for myself. I don’t know if you guys enjoy hanging out on these. I
Joe & Matt: [00:54:19] enjoy it.
It’s been great. Yeah. It’s been a lot
Joel Erway: [00:54:24] of fun guys. I love it. Picking your brain and, uh, these just become study sessions for me. So it’s one of the beauty, that’s also one of the hidden benefits of a podcast is you can use it for like free mentoring,
Joe & Matt: [00:54:39] started it, but turbine enthusiasm a little bit. If you’re getting to shiny object syndrome, you know, you’ve got to kind of still hone it in stop at first.
Joel Erway: [00:54:48] Awesome guys. So make sure you go check them out. What’s so hustle and flowchart is a podcast. What’s what’s the name of is that the hustle and flowchart is that the URL? Like where can we go to there?
Joe & Matt: [00:54:57] Yeah. hustleandflowchart.com. You can go to the podcast. If you do it on your mobile phone, it will take you to iTunes on an iPhone.
And I think Google, if you’re on an Android and if you go to there from your desktop, it’ll take you to our show notes page where you can listen there. So. Uh, hustle and flowchart.com actually will automatically redirect to the right place.
Joel Erway: [00:55:15] Awesome. So we’ll put those in the show notes. So you guys have links. Matt, Joe.
Thanks again. I appreciate having you on and for everyone else, we’ll see you on the next episode. Take care.

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