Direct Response Marketing: EU 95 with John Mulry
This is my first face-to-face interview in Experts Unleashed and we have a special guest today.
He is from Ireland and is in the digital marketing space. A traffic genius who has worked with some of the world’s best-known marketers.
He worked in corporate finance and did a master’s in finance and business capital marketers.
He was Dan Kennedy’s first and only ever certified business advisor in Ireland.
His name is John Mulry.
Let’s talk about his discovery and his entrepreneurial journey.
If you want to stand out, make sure you have a book. [5:52]
Be a constant student. [9:16]
You can have the will to do the best things in the world, but if your environment is not conducive to that, it’s not gonna happen. [14:10]
Perspective is everything until you experience it firsthand. [18:04]
Focus less on getting a volume of people into your world and more on working with a handful of people and working with them intimately. [30:37]
… and much more!
EU 95 audio
[00:00:00] John Mulry:
A lot of copywriters, just focus on a copy where they could vary their, their deliverables by adding in a couple of extra elements that the client will lead. Because if you have a client that is, that wants copy, they’re also gonna need someone to put that copy on a page. They’re also gonna need someone to drive traffic to that copy.
And I think a lot of people pigeonhole themselves. Whereas I. I just delivered whatever the client needed.
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Let’s get started.
[00:01:07] Joel Erway:
Hey, what’s going on, everybody. Joel Erway here and welcome to another very special episode of experts unleashed. Today, we are tuning in from a hotel in Sao Pao, Brazil. This is my first. In person face to face interview. It’s not on video, but we have our own, our first portable podcast studio setup, which is really exciting.
So it’ll give you a little bit of a, a preview of what’s to come and we’re gonna have a lot of fun. So I have a very special guest here. His name is John Moy. John is from Ireland and John and I have known each other for a few months now. He is in the digital marketing space. He’s a traffic genius and he has worked side by side.
And for, and with some of the world’s best known marketers if you’ve heard any of my podcasts, whether it’s on sold with webinars or experts on leash, you’ve probably heard me mention Todd brown in the past. And John has. Partnered with Todd and is running their agency. And I’m excited to have him on here and we’re gonna talk about his discovery his whole entrepreneurial journey.
So John, welcome man.
[00:02:14] John Mulry:
Cheer, Joel, delighted to be here.
[00:02:16] Joel Erway:
Cool. Yeah. So why don’t you go ahead and give us a quick background of how you got started. You’re obviously from Ireland, people will notice from your from your accent, but give us a quick intro about who John is.
[00:02:28] John Mulry: Yeah, my, my entrepreneurial journey actually started back here in south America.
[00:02:32] Joel Erway:
Funnily enough around 2008 and 2009, I was working in corporate finance having did a master’s in finance and business and capital markets, et cetera. And I was really miserable working like a lot of people I saw Refuge in, in other places. And I decided that when I was really unhappy, I wanted to just go and find myself.
So myself and my friend decided that we were both quit jobs. He was a civil engineer in London, and I was in finance in Ireland. So we both quit our jobs and decided that we would go to south market for the year volunteering. and while I was way in south America, lots of stuff happened. But I, the, the main thing, the main thread road at all was that I changed massively as a person from a health point of view, from a spiritual point of view.
And just from a whole outlook and life point of view, mm-hmm because I was volunteering with people that had absolutely nothing yet. There were the happiest people in the world yet I’d come from the finance world where it was all money driven and. That shift was huge for me. So when I came back, I decided to put some things into place to start my own businesses.
And I started I changed a lot from a fitness point of view while I was in south America. So when I came back, I got qualified as a fitness trainer and I started a gym. And one of the first things I did, which I think I always, I always mentioned it to people, is that the first things I did was go to a fitness event and, and hire a coach, which I think definitely spearheaded me and definitely accelerated my growth.
But when I started the gym, I was like a lot of people I’d open up my doors, whether it was an online business or whether it was a, a physical business. And I just expected people to come in and they didn’t. And it was very disheartening. And I realized that if I was gonna differentiate myself in, in my city, I wanted to do it in a way that I just, I wanted to differentiate myself.
Getting better at advertising and marketing to everybody else in my area, because we were all really good at getting results. We were all really good at the fitness aspect, but I seen an opportunity to Excel from the advertising American point of view. So I just became an average student, started going to lots of events, reading, lots of books and so on and so forth.
And I came across direct response marketing. And one of the people I came across having been to events and haven’t hearing his name over and over and over again was a guy called Dan Kennedy. So I was like, well, if Dan’s the best in the world, I wanna go to Dan learn from Dan directly. So me being naive and me being, you know, this eager Irish guy, trying to learn direct response marketing.
I started sending emails to GT. I. Thinking that I’d be communicating with Dan little that I know that Dan didn’t have email and Dan only communicated with fax . So I was like, okay, well I’m gonna get a fax machine. It’s so true. It’s so true. So I got a digital fax machine and I managed somehow. I, I don’t even know how I got it, but I managed to get Dan’s fax number.
So I started sending faxes and I was getting lots of polite messages back from his assistant saying. We really appreciate everything that you’re doing and that you’re learning direct response marketing, but Dan, just too busy to, to do anything personal with you, anything like that. But I was like, no, I’m not giving up.
So one of the first lessons I’ve learned from Dan was to be someone be somewhere and have something to say. And the second lesson was, if you really wanna stand out, make sure you have a book. So I was in the process of trying to be someone be somewhere and have something to say while also writing my first book, your elephants under.
Which very strange title, which we can get into again. But so while I was doing this, I, I was thinking, okay, I wanna get Dan’s attention. I really wanna learn from this guy in a way that’s not just his courses, not just magnetic marketing, which was fantastic, not just his no BS newsletter, which was also fantastic and everything else, but I wanted to learn from source.
Obviously his surname is Kennedy, which is an Irish surname. So I went to in my local city, there’s a kind of like a heritage building where you can go in and get the meanings of people’s names done up to in scrolls and stuff like that. And with like really nice placards and things. So I went into them and I paid to get the Kennedy surname, get the history of it and everything else got it printed up in a really nice manuscript.
And I FedExed it to Dan with my manuscript, for my first book, U elephants under Tre. And about a week later, I got a FedEx letter back saying you’ve got my attention now, Mr. Muy. And they flew me over to long story short. They flew me over to Dallas. And while all this was happening, this was happening over a period of months.
And I started implementing Dan’s magnetic marketing teachings in my business. And I started to fill up with, with clients, no end in my gym. And I was probably one of the most expensive in my areas. And I wasn’t accepting lots of clients, but at the clients I were, were paying a premium. And it was something else that I’d learned from good old Dan as well.
But when I would as this was going on, I started to realize that I was more passionate about the marketing and the advertising than I was actually getting the clients’ results. Yeah. And a lot of my clients were self-employed were professionals and they started to ask me, how did you get me in here?
Like that, what you did to get me in here was so unique and so different. Will you teach me how to do that? So this transition started to happen and I started to move towards. Helping my clients with their marketing. And I realized that this is where my true passion was that I want to help other people use direct response marketing in their businesses.
So I ended up what happened was I partnered with Dan to bring GT I C to Ireland. So I was Dan’s first and only ever certified business advisor in Ireland and was bringing Dan dance teachings to, to Ireland for many years until it came to a point where I started having my own name that I, I didn’t no longer had to leverage G K C and Dan, I could start.
You know, putting my own stamp on things and I kind of transitioned away from there and then went to start doing some online launches with some partners online. So I met a guy a guy called Kevin Fay, fantastic marketer in the pure internet marketing space. So he’s in like, he’s like a JV zoo king he’s like warrior plus king for, you know, those, those serial launches.
He’s just a genius edit. So we partnered in a few launches. We did a lot of affiliate launches. And did some other launches as well online. And I, I kind of got sick of that after a while because I don’t know if these people would like me saying this, but the, there was a lot of, I scratched your back.
You scratch mine now. Yeah. And they, whereas we would do a launch, we would do really well. And then you’d have people coming to you say will you promote this? And it’s like, no, that’s absolute garbage. I would never promote it. Yeah. And then. You become the guy who won’t promote someone back, but the reality is what they’re setting is garbage.
So long story short it’s it was a bit of a whirlwind. And really the, the big thing for me was as all this was happening is I was always just a constant student. And I think I still am a constant student and I, I love investing in programs. I love going through courses. Like we were speaking to John Benson yesterday at the event and he was.
And John’s a client now. And he was like, oh, my new copy course is ready. Will you go, will you go through it? I was like, absolutely. I cannot wait to go to, yeah, because I know I’m gonna learn some nuggets. I know I’m gonna learn some wisdom. It’s only gonna accelerate me, me even further. Yeah. So there’s a lot that I wanna impact there.
Because you know, aside from your whole journey into marketing, which is fantastic and direct response marketing, which anyone who follows me, they also know I have a background in direct response marketing, but I wanna go back to actually your, your trip to south America because. I think this is so important for people to realize.
So ironically I have always been personally resistant to travel abroad. I had some bad experiences when I did some light travel to Mexico and Canada. Ironically, I literally live on the border of Canada, but so I’ve always had this. This hesitant vibe of like just going and traveling international.
Here we are in Sao Paulo, Brazil. This is the furthest I’ve ever been away from home. But you talk about when you went to south America, was it 15 years ago now? Or it was 2007. Was that correct?
[00:10:05] John Mulry:
Thousand nine, eight, 2009. Okay.
[00:10:08] Joel Erway:
So you made that decision to get out of your comfort zone and try something completely new, right?
Talk about that decision, meaning like leading up to it cuz you’re in finance. Did you really, you did, you know, at that point you didn’t want to be in finance anymore. You were trying to go rediscover yourself or just, just throw yourself into a completely blue ocean and see what happens. Like what was that thought process?
[00:10:33] John Mulry:
Yeah, I mean, I was miserable. I was. I was going to work drunk. I had, I was very bad with, I had like very bad issues with, with drinking and like I’m Irish. So we technically, we or not, technically we drink a lot as a, as a nation and I was no different. And, but back then I was, I was awful. I mean, I would go out on Thursdays and not stop drinking until Monday.
And it was really bad and I was just miserable and I came to the, coming to the decision. It didn’t happen overnight. Mm-hmm there was about a six month period where I was trying to quit the job, trying to, to take that leap of faith. But I just couldn’t, I, it was just paralyzed by fear and I, it was the, you know, the, it wasn’t the best time to be quitting jobs as well, around 2007, 2008 with the worldwide recession.
But when I made the decision to go to south market, that was an easy. Because in Ireland, it’s, it’s part of the culture that people will go away. But the majority of people either go to the us, they would go to New Zealand, they would go to Australia. And I didn’t want to go to those places because I knew if I went to those places, I would just do the exact same thing I was doing.
Yeah. Now, so I wanted to go somewhere different and frontest they, the guy that I was traveling with, one of my great friends from college. We just came to the conclusion with why don’t we go somewhere completely different? And I, I said, well, I dunno, anybody who’s ever rented out to market. Okay, well, let’s go there then.
And we just, we started researching it and we, we started looking to the, the type of things we could do over there. And the first thing that we decided to do was to go to Ecuador and get four weeks Spanish lessons and living live with a family in Ecuador, and then go volunteer in the jungle. Helping animals be rehabilitated into the, into the wild again.
And it was just so far into me and so different that I was, it gave me a new lease of life and something to look forward to that I, that made it easy for me to make that decision to quit the job then when I did.
[00:12:26] Joel Erway:
Yeah, it’s so important for, I, I think a lot of people listening right now can relate to at some point in their life.
Having that desire for change, massive change. Like, you know, something is off in your life and you need a change. We don’t know how to do it. It doesn’t necessarily have to be as extreme. Go move across the world, you know, but I do like, I’m a big believer in your environment is what shapes you as a person.
And that could be the environment of the people that you surround yourself with. That could be your actual physical environment of, okay, go move to a new state or new city or a new town or a new country. But that is what. Does inspire a lot of changes, hopefully that inspires people who are listening right now to know like, okay, like, yeah, it’s gonna be scary.
Like maybe you don’t have to go move across the world, but nothing will change if you stay in the same environment that you’re in. Like absolutely nothing. There’s, there’s only one guarantee and that’s it. Like nothing will change if you stay in your same environment. So I thought that was. Yeah, very interesting.
[00:13:31] John Mulry:
I have a previous client of mine and he’s really, really good at what he does, but one lesson that stood out for me and he was, he has lots of wisdom, but one of the things he said was environment Trump’s will mm-hmm you can, you can have the will to do the best things in the world, but if your environment is not conducive to that, it’s not gonna happen.
And the analogy he uses that if, if you’re hanging around with 10 drug dealers, you’re gonna become deliver. Yep. If you’re hanging around with 10 successful people, you’re gonna become deliver.
[00:13:58] Joel Erway: Yep. Yeah. It’s a, that’s a great, that’s a great analogy. So. Did you plan, you stayed there for a year, right? Was that the initial plan or did you go there like, oh, we’re gonna, you know, oh, we’ll go for, you know, a month to start.
And then we’ll kind of see how it goes. Was, was that the initial plan, was it
[00:14:14] John Mulry:
stay for a year or we booked a one way ticket and I planned route six months. I knew crunch juice was gonna stay longer. And this whole reason was that he a lot more money than I did. So he knew that he was gonna be staying a lot longer than, than, than we did, but we had the first, first six to eight weeks.
Four weeks in Ecuador doing the Spanish lessons. And then we knew we were gonna do four weeks in, in a place called banio where, where we were in the jungle, helping the animals. That that was the only thing that was planned after that. It was, it was completely open ended. Got it.
[00:14:45] Joel Erway: Okay, cool. So you’re there for a year.
You have this realization of like almost how to become happy. Like maybe not how to become happy, but you see this paradigm shift of money. Doesn’t buy happiness and. There’s a stark contrast of people who are, who don’t have a whole lot of money and they’re living, you know, very frugally, but yet they’re the happiest people in the world.
That’s, that’s what you said earlier. Like how, how did that change your viewpoint throughout life? You know, living in finance, obviously everything is money driven. How did that experience now change your outlook on the worldview and just you moving forward. Like, did it change your values at all? Like, did it change your drive?
Did it change your ultimate, your goals?
[00:15:32] John Mulry:
Absolutely. I mean, when I was in the finance world and the area was in, it was it wasn’t the exact area of finance I wanted to get into. I saw myself moving into pure investment banking and pure like in the, in the, the stock market space and the likes of London and places like that.
And when I was away in south America, the shift from being money focused, I want to get a job. That’s gonna give me a salary of this and et cetera, et cetera. I wanna go make this amount of money. When I was like, one of the places we were volunteering with was a place in Peru called Pisco. And it was destroyed two years before we got there by earthquake.
And we were. Helping people get back on their feet. We were, one of the projects I was in charge of was we built six compost toilets for a village of about 80 people. And every, every single day at lunchtime, they would bring us into one of their, their houses, which is not a house. It was basically a hu built with cardboard paper and they they’d have a pot in the corner for cooking and another pot in the, the other corner for pissing in excuse my French.
And it was. It wasn’t the nicest place, but the people were the nicest people, some of the nicest people I’ve ever met in my life. And they were so happy every single day, they seen us smile from ear to ear and these people had nothing. Mm-hmm some of, some of them were like less than nothing yet. They were the happiest people and it just made me realize that happiness, it doesn’t come from the material.
Things, happiness comes from your own state of mind and happiness comes from. You know, accepting where you were and, and being okay. If things are not exactly how they should be right now, because, and everything else.
[00:17:08] Joel Erway:
I wanna jump in there because I do believe that that is something you have to experience to fully comprehend, because I’ve heard that many, many times like, oh, you know, money doesn’t buy happiness or, you know, Happiness.
Doesn’t come from materialistic things, but that’s, in my opinion, it’s one of those lessons that like, you could hear it a thousand times and I’m sure some people might take that to heart and just understand. Yep. That’s true. But I think until you, again, you know, perspective is everything until you experience it firsthand.
Like I’m not saying you need to go and be homeless, but if you go and serve underprivileged people or you go and live in an environment where the values are completely different, I think that’s when you truly comprehend and truly realize what matters in this life and, and that’s when your values can change.
So that’s really, really inspiring. So I wanna move forward and I wanna talk now about when you met back to Ireland, started to learn from Dan, you know, follow his teachings, then you open up your gym. What was that unique strategy? So what was that marketing strategy that you used to get people into your gym?
[00:18:12] John Mulry:
So a lot of it was using a combination of offline to online direct response marketing and online to offline direct response marketing. So I did I’ve kind of fell into doing a lot of presentations, like doing live events, but they were on a smaller scale. Whereas I I’ve put myself out there to speak in front of my audience and then I would, you know, move them to download one of my eBooks.
I was using a lot of. Digital marketing Mets before they were popular. I always joked that if you look, if you go to archive.org and look at my first website, it was all lead magnets and, and that’s back way, like way back then. And then another strategy that I used was these things called lead boxes.
So I, in my local area, My friend had a cafe, two cafes I’d have a lead box in his cafe in, in lots of other places where my market would frequent. There was lead boxes. It was essentially said, win a month. Personal training, just fill out your name, your email, your phone number and your number one goal. And then I would call those people up.
Say like inside joke, everybody won the Fremont. Yeah. I mean, you call those people up, get them in for a free month. And when they come in for an initial consultation, One of the other strategies that I used, that, that I picked up from one of my first coaches guy called cable. McElderry an absolute beast of a, of a fitness business owner was a, a two step close.
So when they come in, don’t, don’t try and sell them straight away, just add value to them and then send them under way. And they say to you, well, They’re walking out the door and they’re like, well, how do I work with you? How does that work? And then they start selling themselves. I’m working with you. And one of the other things he taught me was to never have your pricing on you, when you’re doing your consultations, go have to go in, always go into another room to get your pricing.
And when you come back and make sure your pricing is laminated, so the price can change. And I had my pricing laminated. I just, I, I literally. I didn’t make any of this stuff up. I just followed his advice to a T mm-hmm and it worked. And I combined what he was teaching me with with Dan’s magnetic marketing principle.
So like, there was little to non-direct mail being used in Ireland. And the beautiful thing is that in Ireland, like the postal system is amazing. So you know, that it’s like the mail is gonna get delivered and it’s going to get to the right person. So I started using multi-step direct mail to, to fill people.
To come to my events, to do using trace step marketing, direct mail to, to get my target audience, put their hand up and I would follow up with them. And then it was just a combination of just being aggressive with blogging and aggressive, with online marketing strategies, to get people offline.
[00:20:51] Joel Erway:
That’s awesome. You know, it’s the gym marketing space is so fascinating. I didn’t realize. How many gym, like it’s, it’s this interesting that it’s kind of a little sidebar here, but you know, over my career in direct response market, I’ve worked with probably a dozen different. Like gym marketers or people who teach people how to market their gym.
I think it’s just such a, it’s such a pain for gym owners to get, to fill their gym that it’s like, you know, and it’s obviously a very, very large, large space, but it’s, it’s always fascinating how many different gym owners I find. That make their way into direct response marketing. And it’s like one of the biggest niches.
I mean, it’s not even a huge niche, but like, I just see so many, so many gym marketers that finally realize direct response marketing is like, I have to learn it. I have to learn it. Right. Okay. So then, you know, you start working with Dan, you become a, what is it? Dan Kennedy certified. I was a
[00:21:51] John Mulry:
Certified business advisor for Dan in Ireland.
[00:21:55] Joel Erway:
So would you funnel him leads or is it just you teaching his principles as like an Irish Dan?
[00:22:01] John Mulry:
So it was both. So basically the, the model that it, that they recommended, we, we use was to set up local business groups charge a monthly fee for the business groups.
And every month, like every month I did a, basically a live presentation to anywhere from on the, the lower end. Maybe there was 10, 15 people in the room to the higher end. Maybe there was, you know, 40 or 50 people in the room and it was basically just deliver valuable marketing and sales content to them every single month.
And at the end of it, I would pitch two things. I would pitch Stan’s newsletter. And I would pitch my consulting or my done for services mm-hmm and every single month I’d get a new client. And it was just, it just worked really well. I’d I’d run postcards to businesses in my area. I would do newspaper ads and I would do Facebook ads to fill the events.
I’d follow up, email marketing, get people to the event and then add value to them. And I. Pretty much every single month I’d get a new client. If I needed it sometimes like the, it was just me. So it was me. And for a time I had a small admin team, but then I just, I realized that I didn’t actually need it.
And I didn’t want to grow a big team, much like yourself. You’re not interested in growing a, you know, a humongous team mm-hmm and all the. Complexities that comes with that. I was just wanting to be myself, my own business and started growing that monthly, that monthly membership up and getting clients from it.
And then I launched it in a different city. Didn’t go well in that city, because half because of it was down to my laziness of not wanting to travel up and down the whole time. And I just didn’t put the effort in, but yeah, it was a, it was a good model. It was getting, getting people in the door, getting butts and seats as Dan calls it and then adding value to them and then making them an.
[00:23:39] Joel Erway:
So let’s, let’s summarize the model again real quick. So it was a monthly workshop, right? Was that free?
[00:23:46] John Mulry:
You could attend the first one free. And then after that, there was a, a noon. If I remember, I think it was about 30 hours a month, which was like $35.
[00:23:53] Joel Erway:
Mm-hmm how many of the free members would end up converting?
[00:23:56] John Mulry:
Usually on good days, usually around. Half to maybe 60, 70%. And then other days it may be like 20% and maybe some days not. But on average, I’d say you could probably say 30 to 40%.
[00:24:11] Joel Erway:
Would they have to pay annually or was it just month to month?
[00:24:14] John Mulry:
It was month to month. And then I, I implemented an annual as well.
And. There was no major difference between the monthly and the annual and like in my city as well. I was kind of like, I call it a city, but it, towards us standards, it’s, it’s like a little town and I was limited in the amount of people I could have there. And towards the end of it, I actually got rid of the, the monthly fee and just met it completely open ended because I was getting clients from it anyways.
Mm-hmm and so I didn’t need that monthly fee and it just didn’t make sense. It was nearly like a barrier. Yeah.
[00:24:44] Joel Erway:
Cool. So that’s, I, I love learning about different monetization models, because I think so many people do tend to overcomplicate it and especially with live events or workshops or even virtual events, like I think that can be applied universally.
Like even if you did. That virtually now I think that could be, I think that could be applicable. Like, Hey, we host these monthly, you know, these monthly meetups, we’re gonna talk about marketing. We’re gonna talk about X, Y, and Z come to the first one for free. And if you like it, then you can pay. And, you know, it’s like a free preview event.
So. Awesome. And so outta curiosity, what were your, how much were your services for done for you and consulting? You said you’d pick up a client every single month, right? Yeah.
[00:25:25] John Mulry:
So it, it ranged in, I was kind of. I wasn’t at that back then, I wasn’t focused on one area and without even knowing it, I was doing, I was doing it all for the majority of the stuff I was doing was.
But I would like, I would write the copy. I would build a funnel. I would like write scripts for people. I would run the traffic for them. So it, it did vary range depending on the size of the project. Yeah. So one off projects may have been, you know, a couple of grand for here or there for small copy pieces to like I’ve some clients lifetime value.
Well, over a hundred thousand cause it was working with them more of an ongoing basis and. Doing a lot more in depth stuff for him. So it was everything I did was custom. Everything I did was tailor to that client’s need, because having learned from Dan and having gone through everything that he, he had shared as I was going through all the training and stuff like that, I picked up a varied skill set.
And so there was a lot I could deliver for clients. And it’s, it’s something that I think that say for example, copywriters could, could definitely. Add to their arsenal. A lot of copywriters, just focus on a copy where they could vary their, their deliverables by adding in a couple of extra elements that the client will lead.
Because if you, if you have a client that is, that wants copy, they’re also gonna need someone to put that copy on a page. They’re also gonna need someone to, to drive traffic to that copy. And I think a lot of people pigeonhole themselves, whereas I, I just delivered whatever the client needed. Mm.
[00:26:50] Joel Erway:
I don’t think there’s any right or wrong way to do it. Cuz you’ll listen to a lot of people say you gotta niche down, niche down, niche down. It’s like, okay, well, like that’s fine. It serves its purpose. But like, you know, once you get a client, like, you know, don’t just only offer one thing, you know, open up your, if you want, you know, there’s, there’s always ways to increase it.
I mean, you talked about it. You’ve got a, you had some client lifetime value of a hundred thousand dollars. How much were you making in the financial space?
[00:27:14] John Mulry:
One of the reasons with the financial space that it. I was upset about it is cuz I when I was, when I started off, I was making about 40 ish, K mm-hmm but I had lost a lot of interviews when I was going for the going for the jobs initially, because they were, they were trying to tell me I was only worked X amount and that really did not sit well with me.
Cuz I, I just hate the idea of someone telling me that I’m money worked. Mm-hmm money worked. I wanna prove how much I’m worked and I wanna prove that that, that number. I wanna be in control of that number. Yep. And so I I’d lost a lot of interviews, but I was earning about 40 ish K, which is euros, which in dollars back then was probably around 50 ish.
Mm-hmm maybe a little bit more. Yep.
[00:27:59] Joel Erway:
Yeah. I mean, that’s the beauty with marketing and sales. Like if you learn that skillset, I mean, you’re in control of what you’re worth, you’re in control of your value. So now going back to going back to where we’re at in, in your journey story, you start working with.
Local clients. How long did you work? How long were you certified with Dan Kennedy?
[00:28:15] John Mulry:
I was doing that for a handful of years. And before I started to transition purely onto, you know, full time online and helping clients online. And as I mentioned, when I was doing the, the affiliate launches, I was doing those launches to get clients.
So I would do like a, like a hundred percent commission launch and on the, the offers. And I, cuz I knew that the way it structured the offers that I was launching. It naturally led to people needing help implementing what I talked about in the launches. So I was doing them to get clients. So as that was starting to pick up, I kind of winded down the, the monthly events and the monthly workshops and started to transition solely online then from there.
[00:28:56] Joel Erway:
And what year was that?
[00:28:57] John Mulry:
That was it. Would’ve been back. Maybe around 2015, 2016. Okay.
[00:29:05] Joel Erway:
So this is about six years now after you made the decision to go live in south America. So, okay. So year in south America, then come back, run your fitness business, learn marketing discover Dan Kennedy. Become a certified Dan Kennedy teacher then start working in the, in the affiliate marketing space and, and, and doing launches through 20 16, 20 17.
What was the next big kind? Milestone in in your journey after that point, like, what was the next big, big thing that happened after you switched or not switched, but next progression point. Cause you don’t do launches anymore. Right? I mean, that, that was a short time, right?
[00:29:41] John Mulry:
I dunno if I’d call it a big thing, but the, a big transition point for me was to focus less on.
Trying to get a volume of people into my world and focus more on working with a handful of people mm-hmm and working with them intimately. So I could charge a lot more. And I started to clients that I was working with. It was the, the type of model that I started to use was a monthly fee plus a percentage.
And it was basically it, it worked quite well. It ended up working to a point where there was, I ended up solely working with one client that the, the monthly fee plus percentage of sales. It was more enough for me to have a comfortable time. And it was a, we, I was doing that for maybe a year and a half, two years with this one client.
And I was like, essentially, I was the, I was his director of marketing without having that title. Mm-hmm . And I was at a point where I was settled down with, with my then fiance and now, or then girlfriend now, wife, Jess. And I was, I kind of got into my comfort zone and I dunno if I called that a good thing or a bad thing, but I was in my comfort zone.
And then out of the blue. I got in an email from Damien and marketing funnel automation St. Todd was looking for a director of marketing and. That and I should go for it. And at the time I was trying to meditate and because it was like, I just read everywhere that all the books I was reading was like, try meditation and I just couldn’t get it.
I was like, I just couldn’t get it. And now I joked by meditation is my 45 minute walk my dogs every morning. Yep. But back then I was trying to meditate and I like cleared out one of our spare rooms in the house and we called it the meditation room and I’d used to light incense. And I’d gotten this email in the morning.
And I went in and I started meditating. And I don’t know if, if it was just my brain telling me, or if it was part of the meditation, but something said, sure, stick your, stick, your name in the ARD. And I’d never dreamed of doing anything like that, but I was obviously a big fan of Todd. I had bought six figure funnel, formula I bought as other programs.
And I just knew that it could be an opportunity to work alongside one of the greatest. So I took my name in the hat and. Later that day, Damien responded back and says, could you hop on zoom? And I didn’t know who Damien was at the time. Yep. I’d seen pictures of him obviously being in, in, in Todd’s world and everything else.
He’s his business partner. Yeah. Yeah. So I hopped on with Damien and like, Damien’s tough. Like Damien he’s direct. I love Damien to bits, but he was, he was very tough and he was like, Why you and I was very laid back because I was in, in my comfort zone. Mm-hmm and Damon called me up. It he’s like, you look like you’re enjoying life.
I don’t think this is gonna be for you. I was, and I was like, okay, cuz I was, I was like, I was very much relaxed. I was making decent money. You nailed it. yes. Yeah, I was. And he was like, I don’t think this is for you. So, and he was like, well, tell me a little bit about what you’re doing anyway. So I showed him some of the campaigns and he was like one of the Damien, one of the things he said on the call was showing me campaigns as wanting, but showing me the results.
And are you getting these results? So I pulled up our stats dashboard of what, the results we were getting. And it was like, who who’s running those ads. I was like, I am. He was like, who built the webinar? I did. Who built the pages? I did. He was like, you did all that. And you’re getting those results. Okay.
You need to speak to Teddy. So Teddy was the next step in, in the process and talked with Teddy. Got on really well with Teddy. Teddy was like the, the night and day of day. Yeah, he was just so laid back. Good time. Bad job, absolutely loved Teddy. And then after that, it was. I had a call with Todd and Todd.
The first thing Todd said to me was like, look, there’s no dispute in your marketing chops. We’ve gone through, like, I could see them going through all my funnels, cuz they were opting in and erupting in with their own name and emails. So I could see them going through everything. And it was like, okay, these guys are checking me out, which is cool.
And Todd goes, I’m only here to convince you it, this isn’t for you. so he was trying to, he was like, he was saying, look, he was, this is, this is all the negative points about this, this role. He’s like, I’m gonna absolutely push you to your limit. I’m gonna do this, that and the other. And I was like, let’s do it.
Let’s go. And then I joined forces with Todd as the director of marketing that was in February, 2020 just before COVID hit. And it, it was. It’s been a whirlwind. And last September, the opportunity came as Todd and Damian realized that they wanted a Saturday agency. The opportunity came for me to transition out the director of marketing role for Todd into running the agency.
And here we are.
[00:34:04] Joel Erway:
So it kind of comes full circle from 2009, you needed to get outta your comfort zone. It wasn’t really comfortable. I mean, the finance world was not comfortable, but you needed to change. So you jumped into a completely new environment. That whole learning experience, going to south America, changing your values, changing your perspective, coming home doing something completely different, going into fitness that leads you into marketing.
Falling in love with marketing work with Dan. Start to get your own clients. Build your new comfort zone. Sit there for a little while, and then this new environment. Really Todd and Damien or Todd’s company pushing you to change again. And, and I’m paraphrasing, this is, this is how I, I heard it. And and here we are.
I mean, is that, is that about accurate?
[00:34:50] John Mulry:
Yeah. I mean, it’s, it’s pretty much kind of explains it to you.
[00:34:54] Joel Erway:
So did Todd actually fulfill on that? Like, did they push you? Like, was it you know, was it really a difficult environment? Like, did that push you outta your comfort zone to, to join forces with them? Or was not so much.
[00:35:08] John Mulry:
Yeah. I mean, it, it definitely pushed me and, and it still pushes me and like the, the, the drive is there, but like, I was like, Todd legitimately stepped aside and he gave me that freedom to do, to run the marketing, how I wanted to run it. And he said that from the very beginning, he was like, look, I’m gonna be here to support you, which he has been every day since he’s like, I’m gonna be here to, to help you grow and help you improve.
But if you tell me Todd, step out of the way I got this, I’m gonna step out of the way. And he did, and it was fantastic. And, but that came with a lot of pressure. Mm-hmm . If we we’d have our Monday meetings, we MFAs run on the, the EOS system mm-hmm . So every Monday we’d have our leadership meeting and I was in charge of weekly revenue goals, weekly new buyer goals weekly lead goals.
And sometimes we didn’t hit those goals and there’s hell to. So like everything is very, very much to the point and that, that structure I say to Jess all the time like that, you know, I was a pretty good marketer going into that role. But one of the biggest things I I’ve gotten since working with Todd and Damian closely is I’ve become a lot more of a rounded business owner and entrepreneur having that kind of a structure in place.
Cause before it was like, for me, and this is down to my own downfall is that I was like, whatever I was bringing in was I was bringing in, I didn’t, not that I didn’t care, but I was just like, eh, it’s this month’s a good month. This month’s not as good as last month. Okay. I’ll, I’ll work harder next month.
Versus having, being in an environment with Todd and dam, the whole leadership team. Whereas we, we were kept accountable to goals every single week. I’ve targets every single week. Now we didn’t hit them every week. That’s just the reality of business. But we, we were, we were kept on point and that’s structured.
Like that’s, that’s elevated my game in a way. I, I don’t, I, I, I can’t comprehend right now. Mm-hmm but it’s definitely brought me onto a whole new level.
[00:37:03] Joel Erway:
Yeah. You know, there. There’s different phases to this life. There’s different phases to this game. And this is what I’ve learned personally, over the past four years, as I’ve gone through different plateaus, I’ll call it, you know, relating to fitness, right.
You know, you grow and then you hit a plateau. Some people are really great at breaking through the plateaus. And those are typically people who grow really, really, really, really fast. I’ve been at a plateau in my business and at my life for probably about three to four years in the comfort zone.
Right. And I’ve been going through my own personal journey of like, trying to find that next stage, trying to find that next environment. And that was when I, you know, really where I’ve seen the most momentum over the past four years was when I changed my environment. When I entered a new environment that was joining, you know, top one that was meeting you and joining, you know, Todd’s mastermind.
When he invited me down there, And so, you know, I guess like the theme of this conversation is, is really all about environment, right? It’s it’s, you know, you don’t have to go to south America, right? you don’t have to go throw yourself into a new new situation. But it’s, it’s really important. Like that is what inspires, like, cuz I did the same thing.
I hired a whole bunch of personal development coaches, high performance coaches tried to learn meditating tried to do all sorts of stuff like internally, but every single time. What makes the biggest shift is getting into a new environment that is just completely different, or it forces you to change because everyone’s playing at a different level than you are, or they’re doing completely different things.
And so if you’re listening right now, like that is, that’s the biggest takeaway that I got from this interview. Would you agree?
[00:38:42] John Mulry:
Yeah, absolutely. And it’s, it’s actually, it’s a lot closer to home for me right now as well. Cuz Jess, my wife. She’s at the process of she’s going through a massive change right now, she’s she’s made the decision to quit her job.
So she all through my entrepreneurial career at the beginning, when it was fledgling and doing nothing, and we were just, we just started getting together that she supported me from from day one mm-hmm . And now it’s come to a point where she has enough confidence in herself to be able to make that change.
So she’s a journalist, she’s a writer and she’s been working for a local, local newspaper in our area. And like she could have quit her job a long time ago. Without a shadow of doubt, but she, she wanted to have something she was in control of. And now she’s to the point where she is quitting the job and she’s gone out and she’s gone pursuing her own her own targets and her own goals and her own aspirations.
And I’m so delighted to be able to support her in doing that. So it is it’s full circle, like I said.
[00:39:35] Joel Erway:
Yeah. Well, awesome. John, it’s been a pleasure, man. I didn’t know any of this about you before we did this podcast interview. But I’ve learned a, a ton and that’s why I like doing these is like you.
You get to really think about like, what was your journey? And you start to extract, okay, Hey, these are, you know, these are some of the big events that happen, and this is like putting the pieces of the puzzle together. And so appreciate you sharing that with me. So where can people connect with you? Where can people reach out to you?
[00:39:59] John Mulry:
I’m not so active on Facebook. I have our on social media. I have all the different profiles and everything else, but I don’t use them a lot. But the, the easiest way to reach out to me is if you send me. If you send me an email, I will reply. So John@efiveagency.co, which is co we have the.com, but we just haven’t got around to switching everything over yet.
So John@efiveagency.co is probably the best place.
[00:40:20] Joel Erway:
Awesome. Well, we’ll make sure to link that in the show notes. John’s been a pleasure, man. Thank you so much. And if you’re listening right now, go check out, John, let him know. You heard him on experts unleashed and we’ll see you on the next episode.
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