Podcast

SWW 185 Audio

SWW 185 Todd Brown
Todd Brown:

The reality is, that’s not enough. It’s not just claims. You have to have evidence. You have to have proof. You have to have reasoning to support it or else all you have is a string of claims.

Joel Erway:

Hey, what’s going on everybody, Joel Erway here and welcome to a very special episode of sold with webinars. It has been a while since I’ve had a guest on sold with webinars and I saved my guests interviews for the heavy hitters. I want you to be tuned in whenever I bring somebody on to this podcast, I want to make sure it is going to be well worth your time investment.

Because what I don’t want this to be is I never really wanted this to be just an interview style podcast, where I bring on tons and tons of people and we talk. Those have their time in place, but I want to make sure that you get the most out of your listening time possible. And so today I have one of my mentors on the podcast, somebody who I referenced over and over and over again, you’ve probably heard me reference him many, many times Mr. Todd Brown.

And we are going to be talking about two, at least two very important things when it comes to developing your sales messages, developing your marketing intellectual property. And we are going to be talking about offers. The two of us are both offer guys, and I learned a lot of my offer background stuff, and my offer foundational information from this guy here.

So Todd, super excited to have you on the show, man. Welcome to sold with webinars.

Todd Brown:

I’m honored man. I’m super excited. I was really looking forward to this. I’ve probably learned man as much from you as you have for me. And so I’m super excited to dive in and what it is that you just said, the unique mechanism and promise exposure, spectrum, and offer creation, or some of my favorite topics fixed because they are really foundational they’re difference makers.

There it’s truly like it’s become the game today. And so I’m really looking forward to diving in man.

Joel Erway:

So, let me give our listeners just a little bit of background of how I came about to discovering you and really diving into your stuff. And I think it was back in 2016 or 2017, we were both at funnel hacking live.

We had our own round table. I think you were a speaker. I had a round table and I went up and introduced myself to you. I don’t even know if you remember this, but this was my first time kind of. Chatting with you. And I just introduced myself and and we chatted for a couple of minutes. Then we had to go back and do our round tables.

And so a few months later you’d shot me a message and invited me down when you did your official launch and you’re doing the JV Roundup. And so I went down, hung out with you and your team in Florida. It was amazing. And it was my first kind of, it was, it was my first exposure to And H how do I explain this is my first exposure to slicing up marketing as well, and as eloquently as, as you did it.

And so that was my, you, you taught us all the method and and it was. Like I’ve been hooked on your stuff ever since I, I, I bought your USB sticks with the Agora’s swipe files. I can’t remember the product name of that, but anyway, it’s just been a rabbit hole of of products that I’ve that have consumed of yours.

And and so. We have, you know, as I have progressed, like I have always referenced the people that I’ve learned from it and, and and the two biggest things that apply most of my methodologies of webinars and mini webinars that I have that I’ve latched on and learned from you is the unique mechanism and the offer awareness spectrum.

I would love for us to kind of kick off this conversation and maybe give us a little bit of background, like where you decide, you know, what is the unique mechanism? What is the offer, where to spectrum, maybe we do one at a time, but where did you kind of discover these, these two things? So let’s, I guess let’s start there.

Todd Brown:

Yeah, man. Great question. And so that was a great event by the way that you were at, that was a lot of fun to just really get to share with, you know, the room was really filled. You know, folks like you super sharp marketers, entrepreneurs who get the, who get the game. And so it was fun to, to, to see some light bulbs go off and to be able to share the method with you guys.

First, so take, let me take a step back and say this. So I think my background in direct response marketing is a little bit different from the majority of folks in that I’ve really had one foot in the online marketing space and another foot in the direct response publishing space with companies like a gore.

And so it gave me over time, the ability to really see the best of the best from the online marketing community, really more of the, kind of the, the cutting edge tactical stuff. Right. All the, like the little hacks and whatnot really come out of the online marketing world. But it, and it allowed me at the same time to really see some of the foundation.

Kind of structures and frameworks used in big money campaigns. And because they, you know, that world of direct response publishing cranks out a lot of campaigns, it gave me the ability to see a lot of campaigns and analyze a lot of campaigns and understand what was going on. And so really the truth is Joel, that really, I just brought the best of both worlds together into a methodology that now each uses.

And so it’s interesting just pulling the best, like really the truth of the batteries and that like, when. I take the best of the best from the online marketing world. And I bring it over to the Agoura companies and they think I’m a genius. And I bring the best of the best from the Gwar companies over the online marketing world.

And they think I’m a genius if they only knew that I was just pulling from these other areas. And so it, it, you know, that. Kind of, you know, having a foot in each of those spaces really kind of showed me some things that I’m grateful for. Yeah. One of those is the unique mechanism. Now I want to back up for one second and I want to make sure that everybody understands that.

Marketing and selling are not the same activity. This is a mistake that I see a lot of new marketers, new entrepreneurs make. They kind of conflate a confused, they combine selling and marketing. They talk about sales funnels and marketing funnels as if they’re the same thing. They talk about online marketing and online kind of, you know, selling online as if it’s the same thing.

And it’s not, this is why I’m very intentional about using the, the phrase marketing campaign or marketing funnel, not sales funnel. So sales is what you do when you’re talking to a prospect who already know. And I say talking, communicating with a prospect that early knows the type of product they want.

They’re, they’re aware of their problem. They’re aware of the different solutions out. There are different types and categories of solutions. They already know that they want your type of product or service. And now. What you’re doing is you’re, you’re telling them what the offer, like, what, what they get, what they have to do to get it and why they should choose yours.

Right. And so selling is really all about the product, the service the offer, whereas really the market. Ultimately to quote Peter Drucker, the greatest management guru ever, right? The job of marketing, the objective of marketing is ultimately to make selling superfluous, to make selling unnecessary, to make selling another words, a natural extension, or the way I like to put it, to make the presentation of the offer on a natural, comfortable extension.

To people that are eager and ready to buy. And so marketing is really all about the prospect and it’s about their problem. And it’s about really, for lack of a better phrase, which we’ll talk about and unpack when we, when we get to the unique metrics. It’s really all about using a, an education-based message.

If you will, to lead them, to see your solution as the best, most appropriate solution for them before you ever even talk about your offer or your product or your service. So the job of marketing is really to turn someone’s desire for a result. Into demand for your product or service before you talk about the product or service.

And that’s a very different, it’s a very different skill set. It’s a very different skill set. And so it’s important to understand the difference with what you teach, for example, right? You’re teaching people how to really you’re teaching them in essence, how to create demand, how to get people to want your thing, and then how to present your thing package.

In a way that makes it a complete no-brainer for people to say yes. And so with that in mind, within mark, It’s important to understand that differentiation, especially today, more so than ever before, differentiation is critical. What people want to know is what’s different, right? They don’t, they, they want to know what’s new, what’s different.

They’re not looking for more of the same, especially in, in saturated. Competitive markets. Right? They want to know what do you have to tell me that I haven’t heard before? I haven’t seen before. I haven’t come across before. What are you ultimately talking about that I haven’t seen before that I haven’t heard before that I haven’t tried before.

Right? What people aren’t looking for is more of the same. They’re looking for something different. They don’t want you to tell them the same old thing. As you know, like that they heard already that they try to ready, that they failed was already in the in the past. And so there are really only today, two effective ways to differentiate.

The first way to differentiate is what’s typically referred to as a USP, a unique selling proposition. Unique selling proposition was originally coined by rasa Reeves, one of the legends of direct response marketing and the easiest and simplest way to think about a USP. There’s a lot of different definitions, but the easiest way to understand a USP is when you have a benefit when your product or service can deliver a benefit, an outcome, a result, a transformation that no other competing product or service can deliver.

You have. A unique selling proposition. And so let me say that again, unique selling proposition is a unique benefit that only your product or service delivers and no other competitors. Now today in the majority of markets, especially when you look at the course creators info-product creators trainers, coaches, consultants, a USP is rare.

Right. Typically today USP’s are only found with disruptive technologies like Uber, right? Like when ride sharing apps first came out, that was a disruptive technology. They were able to offer, you know, a number of benefits that people couldn’t experience with yellow cab. And so USP, they it’s no longer a USP now that there is lift.

And so on, same thing with Netflix, when Netflix went to a streaming service, right? That disruptive technology gave them a number of benefits. There was a USP built in because they were the only one that, that at the time, initially, not anymore, but we’re offering you know, you don’t, you don’t have to go to the store to rent a movie.

You don’t have to return anything. You got a whole catalog, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Again, Those are extremely rare. And so what do you do? How do you differentiate when. You are ultimately promising the same thing as everybody else. Right? And this is where we go to the, the the promise exposure spectrum.

So every market is exposed to marketing messages, advertising messages, sales messages, which are based on, are built on claims. Right. Everything, you know, all marketing, advertising, sales messages. Ultimately there are exceptions with brand institutional advertising, but they’re all built on a promise of outcome.

A promise of result, a promise of a benefit. Well, over time. What your market is exposed to, or depending on what your market is exposed to, they become less and less responsive. So the example that I like to use, and I’ve used this for years, I’ve probably even shared it at that initial original event that you were at is let’s take the fat burner, the pills that you can take to speed up your metabolism to help burn fat.

Well, when the very first fat burner came out, all they had to say was take this pill and you’ll lose. That was enough of a differentiator because they were promising something that nobody else had promised before. And so that’s all they had to do was promised that, but over time, like we see in all markets that was knocked off and people take this tablet, take pop this pill to, you know, blah, blah, blah, take this supplement and lose weight, burn fat.

And so what happens is the market becomes less responsive to those kinds of messages because now they’re commonplace. And so, right, like now they’re, they’re no longer there. It’s no longer viewed as new. It’s no longer viewed as different. It’s no longer exciting. And so what happens is with smart marketers and entrepreneurs, as you see this evolution to stage two of the promise exposure, Stage two is where you see an enlarging of the promise.

So this is where you see, right. It will initially in, in, you know, in the fat-burning world, it, it take this pill and lose 10 pounds. We see this, we’ve seen this over the years with like, you know, get Facebook fans. And then it was get a thousand Facebook fans and then it became get 10,000 Facebook fans.

And then it became some ridiculous number, get a million Facebook fans or whatever it is. Yep. Right. And so lots of marketers, lots of entrepreneurs. They’ll try to operate in stage two. They’ll try to stay there by simply just enlarging them. Yeah. We know that a couple of things happen. Number one, if you enlarge your claim enough, you’re lying.

Right? And so you’re, it’s unethical. It’s immoral to me, it’s the wrong thing. But you also reach a point where it’s no longer credible and believable, right. And not everything that is true is believable and not everything that’s believable is true. You, you, if you enlarge it enough, you reach a point where it falls on deaf ears because they don’t believe you.

Joel Erway:

And I’ll add one more thing to this, to this specific area. When people just start enlarging claims, it’s like, you know, if you continue down that route and you make these ridiculously large claims, like, okay, you might get clients, but those people, those clients that you’re getting are now the bottom of the barrel, because those are the desperate clients.

Those are the people that they’re just. The reaching, like they just want, they just want help. Like they just, like, they’ve tried everything or they’re, they’re probably the least committed. And so you know, I it’s, we see it so often, so often, like now in our space, it’s like get X number of clients, you know, and get all these clients in a, in a week and a month, whatever it’s like, good Lord.

Like it’s just so it’s you just become, you become numb to it.

Todd Brown:

It’s absurd. Yeah. No, you’re, you’re you’re so right, man. You know, it’s, it’s absurd. First of all, not only, you know, you attract a certain type of client, not only that, but unless you can deliver and fulfill on that, you right. The whole aim is not just client acquisition, but as client retention, right.

Is the long-term relationship. Right. You know, and I know you you’re, you’re a pro at this, like the back end, right. That’s where the money is made. That’s where the profit is made. That’s where the ongoing. Exchange of value occurs. The front end, the acquiring the client is just, just that it’s client acquisition, right?

It’s it’s, you know, the, the business really is the backend. And so if you’re making these promises that you can’t fulfill on, you’re just setting yourself up for failure. And the other thing is that, you know, you’ve gotta, you know, listeners have to, you know, your, your, your clients and students really need to recognize that markets always evolve over time.

And so today lots of markets are filled with people that are highly skeptical jaded. They’ve been exposed to ridiculous claims. Paid for things that haven’t, you know, fulfilled for them. And so they start to look, this is why I said not everything that’s true is believable. Right. And certainly not everything that’s believable is, is true.

You got to recognize that what happens is markets then evolve to the third stage. And the third state are smart marketers and entrepreneurs evolve to the third stage instead of trying to compete simply on enlarge claims, which by the way today, also again, this evolution of sophistication markets change evolve today.

You know, or what I should say is years ago, what was compliant on platforms like Facebook and Google and eventually YouTube is no longer compliant. And so you, you start to, you know, you, you have claims certainly outrageous claims and you’re going to get flagged. And now you’re going to have issues in terms of traffic generation and all.

Different topic for a different day. Yep. That stage three. This is where we’re no longer enlarging the claim. But now what we’re doing is we’re differentiating with a mechanism or a unique mechanism. Now the unique mechanism is really nothing more than how your product or service works to deliver the result to fulfill on the promise.

So we’re not changing the promise. We’re not trying to differentiate. By making a bigger promise, enlarging. The claim, what we’re doing is we’re identifying, excuse me. What is the market? There’s psychology. Like what do they want? What’s the transformation, what’s the outcome. What’s the result. What’s the problem that they’re solving all that stuff.

Right? And then we are promising, this goes on the assumption that you can fulfill on this, of course, right. That you can solve their problem. We’re promising to solve their their problem. And we’re differentiating by presenting them with a, a different way. Oh, solving that problem, a different system, a different process, a different framework, a different methodology, if you will.

And so we’re not differentiating on the promise for differentiating on the mechanism or the method by which your product. Service works that the beauty is that for the overwhelming majority of folks have coaches, consultants, experts, course creators trainers, info, product creators, all that they, unless they have copied everything that somebody else is doing, right.

Which in and of itself, you know, unethical, blah, blah, blah. But unless they’ve copied every single step from a to Z. They’ve got a unique mechanism. They just have to spend the time interrogating it, unpacking it, understanding what they do and why they do it and why they do it in the order in which they do it.

Why do they do these six steps and not seven? Why did they do these six and not, and not five? Why do they do them in, in this particular order? If they, if the, if the order was different, what would happen? What would be the consequences? All of that kind of stuff is what allows us to really. Understand the unique mechanism or the mechanism behind their product or service.

And really identify why it works. Now. There’s a couple of things to unpack man with this, to, for, for, for folks to understand. So number one, right, what folks are looking for today is right. Is they want to know, are you promising me that you can solve my problem? The same way that others have already promised they can solve my problem.

Or are you promising to excuse me to solve my problem? In a new and different way. It’s one of the very first things that they want to know, like, is this different from what I already know, have heard, have seen and have tried. And so right up front, when we’re able to identify the unique mechanism and we’re we present it like in we’re, we’re basically in, in so many words saying that we’ve got a new and different way for you to reach the outcome, the transformation that you want, what we immediately do is we create interest.

We we’ve, we, we have their attention, and we create interest. Now. Now they want to hear. More, right. We create hope in them, hope that maybe this time things will be different for them because they’ve tried other ways to lose weight and all that stuff didn’t work. And maybe this, this unique mechanism, maybe this is the answer.

Maybe this will finally give me the result. Maybe this is that missing piece. That’s eluded me all of this time. So we create this tremendous amount of. And so before I go on there, some nuances to unpack here, is that, is that clear for your folks? Is there anything that you want to add to that? Yeah.

Joel Erway: I’m going to add a couple of things as it relates to like how I have everything that you’ve just said has been a distiller is distillation of this thing that I call closest to the whole methodology that I teach to my audience like this whole Marketing versus sales.

I talk about it all the time. I’m always sales before marketing. Like if we’re launching a new offer and launch a new, launching a new idea, like you are you’re in my opinion, you’re your, you have to validate your offer first. So go after and start generating sales, validate that offer, then bolt on marketing to get more people warmed up to it.

Right. And so the natural next question that somebody has is like, okay, cool. Well, you know, I agree. I understand that. No, how do I develop my sales argument? You know, what is my offer? And so then we go through this whole exercise of, okay, you know, who is your audience now? Who’s your ideal audience to focus on first.

And the first person that I tell everyone to focus on is you have to go after the person who is closest to the conversion hole, which means. Go after somebody who has tried and failed, like don’t go after like the broad market. Like if you can speak to somebody that, you know, you can help and if they’ve tried and failed something, what would you tell them?

What would you tell them? That’s everything that you’ve just mentioned about making claims and then substantiating those claims through a unique mechanism, because it’s all about the different way in which you can help them. Everything else that they’ve tried. Right? It’s it doesn’t matter if you can help them lose 10 pounds in 10 days because there’s 40 other companies, maybe 400 other companies in the health space that are making that same claim.

But what is it that you do? You do differently and for anybody who’s a marketer right now. Like I’m telling you right now, people will pay you. Extract that for them, like, we do this as one of our services where it’s like, you know, when you bring on a client, we walk through their customer journey. I tell them, I say, okay, great.

Imagine I just gave you my credit card, take me through your onboarding process. And I don’t want to know like the intake form and all that stuff. Like, I want to know step one through step 10 of like, what are all the micro milestones that you were going to take me through? And then all you need to do as a marketer is just listen to that and you have to extract.

The sexy stuff from them because they can’t see most likely the product owner doesn’t see it. Otherwise they wouldn’t be hiring you as a marketer to help them. But that’s where the money is made is extracting their customer journey for them to figure out what’s unique. Like, and, and then you spin that into the sales arguments.

Like this is what’s sexy, right? This is your unique mechanism. Like if you can discover unique mechanisms for people. You will make a lot of money because that is what sells. That is the, that is the hook that it’s that’s everything.

Todd Brown:

Yeah, I love that. I think that, you know, you said some, some tremendous things in there that, that are just worth kind of, you know, reiterating, pointing out.

Number one. I, I couldn’t agree with you more in terms of look, I mean, at the end of the day, you know, the offer is a make-or-break component of any campaign, right? A great offer, a truly irresistible, or what we refer to as a sin, offer a superior resistible. No-brainer. Offer can make up for a lot of marketing weaknesses, but great marketing, great copy will never make up for a week run of the mill offer.

And so at the end of the day, the offer should always be the very first thing that you work on because everything else, every other piece part component of your campaign is ultimately leading to the offer. Really, if you really kind of go back to the definition of market. Everything else that we are doing leading up to the offer is really designed to get them to want the offer before we ever even present the offer.

Right. They want the thing being offered before we ever even present the offer. And we do that, you know, like when it comes to the, the marketing side of things the way that it works is, is this to give kind of big picture, throw this out. So. You know, you said you had mentioned like lose 10 pounds in 10 days.

Well, right. Like, imagine that we brought that type of appeal or idea or headline to the marketplace right now. Well, really the, the, like the very first thing, if. If even God, if we even got people to pay attention to that, or the people that said, let me see what this is about. The very first thing that they want to know is, well, how are you going to do that?

Is it, and is it something that I’ve tried before? Is it something that I’ve heard before? Like, are you going to tell me how to lose 10 pounds in 10 days by doing a lot of cardio by dieting? You know, reducing my calories. Like, is it something that I’ve heard before? Because if the answer is yes, Right.

Like, in other words, they’ve heard it before. What happens is this mental opt-out they immediately just check out like, ah, I’ve heard it, seen it, been there, done that YouTube videos on that books on that. I’ve already tried it like I’m out. So what they’re ultimately looking for is, well, how are you going to do that?

Right. And so how does it work? So if we said, right, lose 10 pounds in 10 days you know, with, you know, XYZ method, right? XYZ method being, let’s call our, our unique mechanism. And they’ve never heard of that before. Well, now we’ve got the opportunity to start to unpack the unique mechanism for them.

Meaning now we have the opportunity to show them, and this is really important. What makes that mechanism? The XYZ method, not only different, but what makes it superior to every other method? And that’s a critical distinction because what, what, you know, people want, you know, different isn’t enough different is what gets attention different is what gets somebody to say.

Hm, never heard this. This sounds interesting. Let me see. Right. What needs see, and ultimately what they are. There, let me see is is, is this easier, faster, more efficient, safer, you know, more powerful than anything else that I’ve tried before. Does this eliminate all the stuff that I hate does this, blah, blah, blah, blah.

And so different is what gets attention. But ultimately Joel superior demonstrating that the unique mechanism. Is superior to every other option for producing the result. In this example, stripping off the 10 pounds in 10 days, that’s critical to making the sale so different is what gets attention. But demonstrating superiority is what produces the.

Conversion. And so the, with that kind of, as the context, really, once we identify the unique mechanism, right, we’ve got the promise, which is ultimately what the PR, what the prospect wants. We now have our way of solving That problem or delivering the result. I mentioned, we spend the time to interrogate it, to understand how the unique mechanism works, whether it’s how the unique mechanism works to reach those different milestones.

How the unique mechanism works to hit those milestones and ultimately bring somebody to the ultimate transformation, the destination, how it works to produce the result. We have to understand. So that we can understand what is better about the way our method works compared to every other method or mechanism out there.

So like always we want to know, right? You’re not, you’re not marketing in a vacuum, right. There are people that you’re marketing to people that have heard other mechanisms. They’ve heard how mechanisms work and why they work right from. From others. And so we have to know what are the mechanisms, methods, systems, frameworks that competitors are offering to the marketplace so that we can look at our own mechanism and see, not only what’s different between ours and the others, but what makes ours superior?

Compared to the others now, superiority, without going too far down, this rabbit hole, superiority comes in many forms, right? So ours could be, could work faster. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to produce more results, better results. It doesn’t mean that it’s going to be safer or more consistent. It may just be the fastest way to do XYZ, fastest claim superiority in terms of.

Not necessarily ease. So we’re not, if we set ours as the fastest doesn’t mean it’s the easiest doesn’t mean it’s the most powerful, just like if we said the easiest way to XYZ doesn’t mean it’s the fastest doesn’t mean it’s the most effective doesn’t mean it’s the safest doesn’t mean it’s the most considered.

But the point is that you’ve got to have you’ve got to have some area of superiority because what people want, what people buy is the best solution I joke around about it, but it’s really, it’s not a joke that nobody searches Google for the second-best way to lose weight. Nobody searches Google for the second-best way to do w you know, the, the, the, the third best way to do webinars, right?

Or like, nobody wants to know that they want to know the best way they want superior. And so we have to interrogate our method to understand how it works and what makes it not only different, but superior. And once we’ve done that work, the beauty really Joel, and you know this because you’ve become.

You’re a pro at this. The beauty really is that our marketing campaign, our campaign argument, but the really the rest of the marketing portion of our campaign is all about educating the prospect on how and why the unique mechanism is superior to the other methods, how it works and, and how, the way it works is superior to others.

And so by doing that, We buy by structuring our campaign argument with education-based marketing about the unique mechanism. What we’re doing is we’re delivering value because we are giving them ah-has we are teaching them, but we just so happen to be teaching them about one thing, which is the superiority of the unique mechanism.

We’re also. Selling, we’re not pitching because we’re not talking about a product, right? We’re not talking about a product or service we’re educating on a different and better way for your prospect to get the result that they want. And then ultimately by the end of that marketing portion, before we go into our offer, the prospect sees they get, they understand why the unique mechanism, why it is the best option for them, why it is the best solution, not your product yet, but your, the unique mechanism that you just educated them on.

And so by the end of the marketing portion, they want the unique mechanism. Now, when we go into, when we segue into the offer, the offer is really how they get the unique mechanism, how they benefit from the unique mechanism, how can they, how they can experience the unique mechanism, the transformation that it brings firsthand.

And so now they go into the offer portion really pre-sold because they already want the unique mechanism, thanks to the education-based marketing content. And the last thing that I’ll say, man, is that. By doing it that way you create an all-roads lead to you because the only place for them to get the unique mechanism is from you.

So they, they, they can’t go to Google and find it, or if they do find anything it’s going to lead back to you. They can’t go to Amazon and buy it. They can’t go anywhere else and kind of and get the unique mechanism. It is now an all-roads lead to you. And that’s why this approach is able to produce such crazy high conversion rates because we’re using education.

But we’re educating them, not just to show how smart we are, but educate, we’re educating them to show them that here’s a different and superior solution to get the result that you want. Here’s how it works. Here’s what makes it different. Here’s what makes it superior. Right. And then we’re ultimately giving them the opportunity to get it.

And we’re packaging that mechanism with deliverables and an irresistible proposition. So right. We perfectly set up the sale and then we present, you know, use your offer creation method to present an absolute no-brainer. So does that mean.

Joel Erway: A hundred percent man, a hundred percent it’s you know, basically you know, it’s what I have what I am trying to hammer home into all my students, all my clients.

Your unique mechanism is it’s everything. I mean like it’s, if your offer is everything there’s, there’s the king of the queen, like your offers, the king unique mechanism is the queen. They really go hand in hand and it’s, it’s always refreshing just to kind of hear it. It is coming from the horse’s mouth because I’ve word vomit.

What I think the unique mechanism is, and you know, all the things that I had talked about with the mechanism, but like this has just been it’s been a breath of fresh air to kind of hear the real perspective and the original the original source of it. I need curiosity, like if I’ve method, that’s your marketing method, right?

How how difficult has it been for you to kind of. Sell your own method following the method, right? It’s like, you know, the meta perspective, like when I was, you know, when I’m making a big push for many webinars, I did my own mini webinar about mini webinars. Like it becomes, you know, I, I found it extremely difficult to write a mini webinar about mini webinars and, and go through that whole sales process.

Right. Did you find it difficult to to come up with your own arguments for your own marketing? Method. Does it make sense?

Todd Brown:

What I’m trying to ask you, I’m trying to eat. Totally, totally makes sense. I would say I’ll say no, I’m going to give a caveat to this and just one second. No, because really, you know what, Joel, this is, this is going to sound strange.

I really think where the sticking point comes for a lot of, a lot of people when it comes to their own method. And let’s say, figuring out, how do I, how do I take this method? And then demonstrate like, you know, it’s not only different, but it’s superior is that there are a lot of things that they do maybe even likely you as we do this longer.

And we come, you know, more skilled in, in our methodology. We tend to take certain things for granted. Like, meaning we, we, we don’t, we don’t spend the time or enough time. Really thinking through, why do I do it this way? Why does this work? Why do I recommend this approach instead of this approach?

Why do I, why webinars, why this type of rep webinar, why opening the webinar this way instead of this way? Why do we say at the beginning, what we say, what is the reasoning behind that? What’s the purpose? What would happen if we Didn’t say that, see all of that, what I call the interrogation is what really uncovers the heart of what the argument is going to be, because it gives you the, you know, it gives you the fodder to be able to create that campaign argument.

So let me take a step back for one second. So as the unique mechanism, has gotten more popular over the last handful of years. Like everything in the, in the marketing space, it gets you know, it’s gotten for lack of a better word, you know, bastardized.

Joel Erway:

And I think, meaning that was the exact word that was, that was going through my mind when you’re trying to figure it out.

Todd Brown:

And he’s going to say bastardize. Yep. What, what people have done they think, and this is an important distinction. They think that the power. In the unique mechanism is in the name. Meaning what a lot of a lot of new moms marketers do is they kind of, maybe they think they understand, or they get the, you know, the unique mechanism, they get the idea of having something different.

And so what they do is they take their ordinary method or their, their superficial understanding of their method, which, and they slap a fancy name on it. They call it something different. They come up with the whizzbang formula, the blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And. And they think that that’s where the, the, they derive the power and what they don’t understand is that yes, that will get attention because you, you have something different, right?

So you’re able to say you can lose 10 pounds in 10 days because of this. Whizzbang mechanism. But what happens is when they get to the heart of the campaign argument, which is proving what makes the unique mechanism superior, because they simply slap the fancy name on an ordinary method and didn’t spend the time interrogating and identifying why they do what they do, the way that they do it when they do it, where they do it, all that stuff, they.

They have no way of proving what makes it superior? What they end up doing is just claiming it’s superior and claiming it’s superior and proving why it’s superior giving if nothing else. And when I say proving in this context, I just mean being able to say, when we say, you know, this is more effective than any other way for growing green grass, the reason is.

Now what we say next serves as a proof point, or if we say right, this is more effective than any other method for growing, you know, green grass, because. What we say next is now the serves as a proof point. Those marketers that simply slap a fancy pants name on there, and don’t spend the time interrogating when they get to that.

They, they can’t give the answer because they haven’t spent the time identifying the answer. And so it’s not about, and this is the, the, one of the things that I love about the method. It’s not about writing slick. It’s not it’s so not that anymore, man. Like people are on such high guard today when you’re like, when cops.

Sounds like copy feels like copy reads, like copy. It’s not good. Copy. Good. Copy. Doesn’t sound like copy. It doesn’t feel like a sales pitch. Right? It feels like a conversation where there’s an exchange of information and insights and value where they’re being educated. And so I share all of that to say that it really just comes down to.

Understanding how to interrogate your, you know, your methodology to identify why you do what you do, the way you do it. And here’s the reality. The final kind of point with this is that. I have to believe for all of your students and clients. They believe that their method is the best. If they didn’t, they would be doing something different, they would be doing it a different way.

Right? Nobody intentionally teaches what they believe is a subpar or inadequate methodology to get people results. So I have to believe right. That for each and every one of your students and clients, they do believe that it is. The best right? For, for whatever reason, they just have to spend the time identifying why, what is it, what does it do?

And so for me, right, I really developed the five method out of. This, I started with like, what needs to happen first and why, and what happens if you don’t do X, Y like, should, could we skip, do we start here? Do we start here? And so like, it, it developed out of that reasoning. And so I’m very in tune with, you know, with all of the reasons why.

It is, it’s a superior approach to producing, you know, a client acquisition campaign. And so for those people that haven’t started there, they just, you just have to dig in and really almost function as if you are a consultant. And you’re, you are brought in to dissect and analyze your business, your methodology, your market.

When I spend a day with people in west Palm, which I haven’t done in a, in a while now, obviously I would always say like, what do you do? They would say, I help clients do X, Y, Z, how do you help them do that? And then they would give me this high level, you know, we help them, whatever generate leads, convert those leads and then monetize those leads.

And I’d say, okay, how do you do that? How do you help them? What do you, what do you help them do with lead gen? What’s your process for lead gen? We do this, like, well, why don’t you do this? What’s the reason how do you what’s the structure of this? And so we rip it apart to its, to its individual components to understand what it is that they see and believe about their method.

That gives us the reasoning, the reason why we then put that aside. And now when we’re constructing the, the campaign argument, we’re going to pull from that. All the reasoning exists. It’s already there. You just have to dig it out. Yup.

Joel Erway:

Yeah. It’s a. When you simplify it into saying unique mechanism is so important, the offer is so important.

Like there is so many, there are so many details that go into that, go into discovering that and, and identifying that and developing it. And it’s a. It is probably one of the most important exercises that you can do if you’re launching a new offer or launching new product or launching a new brand. I mean, you have to find the reason why you have to find the reason why, and without it, your going to fall in the yeah.

Being lumped into everything else, being lumped into the same claim that everybody else is that everybody else is promising.

Todd Brown:

Yeah. Yeah. And you’re, you know, what you’re going to do and right. We, you know, we’ve talked about this, like this was from, from years ago to, you know, like, what folks have to understand is that while claims are at the foundation of a marketing message, right.

Claiming a benefit, claiming an outcome, claiming a. You know, claiming something works fast and all that, the reality is is that, is that that’s not enough. It’s not just claims you have to have evidence. You have to have proof, you have to have reasoning to support it, or else all you have is a string of claims and anybody can produce a message with a string of claims, which right.

Is what we see from a lot of new marketers. And the marketplace is just becoming more and more resistant. They like, you know, the, the. The whole principle, the whole copy principle of like year. Right? What do you mean? Like, just because, you know, they, they almost marketers have this mentality of they think, because they say it, that, that the market’s going to believe.

Right. Just because you say it’s easy. Well, what the prospect wants to know is like what the prospect is saying is of course you’re saying it’s easy, you’re marketing this. You’re you’re, you’re presenting this, you’re offering this to me. Of course. You’re going to say that it’s easy, but help me to understand what is it about this method that makes it easy.

Give me evidence, give me support. Give me reasoning that I can hang my hat on, you know, today, even though what, what people, you know, mark. Entrepreneurs salespeople. They constantly go back to people, make decisions out of emotion, right? And then they rationalize those decisions later with logic while that’s true.

We are emotionally driven creatures today. The most effective marketing campaigns, especially in more sophisticated and crowded markets are based on you. You have to appeal to both through out the marketing message. You have to drive them emotionally, but you also have to give them. Logical rational support for them to believe it.

In other words, it’s kind of like, It’s kind of like this Joel like that, you know you know, when we open up a campaign, the beginning of a campaign, the first three hundred and fifty four hundred, five hundred words typically referred to as the lead right. The job of the lead is to set the emotional hook, right.

Meaning to get the prospect emotionally Interested like to get them by the end of the lead. We want them to say, dang, this sounds amazing. This sounds awesome. But now prove to me that it’ll work and prove to me that it’ll work. Right. So they say, wow, this sounds amazing. Meaning, right? The lead is all about setting that emotional hook, but then the rest of the marketing message, ultimately the campaign argument, the rest of the marketing message, which ultimately makes up the bolt of the marketing portion of your campaign has to then go on to continue to excite the prospect emotionally but give them the logical support.

That’s where evidence comes in. That’s why we refer to it as a campaign argument, because you’re not simply just making claims. You’re not simply just saying all this great stuff about your product. Anybody can say that. And your prospect knows. Anybody can say that we’re putting together an argument that like we’re going to make a claim.

And then we’re going to give proof reason why that shows. Our unique mechanism is not only different, but as superior for them to reach the result. Our job is to show them with through claims and reason why through claims and evidence claims and support that we’ve got something different and superior for them to reach the outcome, the result that they want.

And if when done right, you lead folks to say, damn, I want that. Like, I need that. That’s what’s been missing for me. I get it. I see it. Thank you so much, Joel. Now I understand where I was going wrong before. What mistakes I made, like what I’m missing? I want that at which point, when you segue into your offer, they’re great.

For the opportunity to buy because we just educated them and led them to recognize the superiority of the unique mechanism. But if you don’t spend the time understanding how and why it works, you’re not going to have the information you need to show them to prove to them what makes it superior. And so, you know, I think it’s I think it’s critically.

I think man, if your people get that, like they, they continue to learn that. And develop that skill from you and you tie that, you know, with the offer, like at the end of the day, this is, you know, conversation for a different day, man. But, you know, I, I mean, I think today more so than ever before the smart marketers, all of this, after talking all, all about the unique mechanism, the smartest marketers.

Are really today in crowded and saturated markets, they are really competing today on two things. And this has changed, right? They are today competing on the quality of the offer, not the quality of their copy or the quality of their persuasive skills there. They’re competing on the offer and they’re competing on economics.

Right. Like math at the end of the day. Right? Like they’re competing on that. The offer, the offer today is like, right. Like the offer today is, is, is even more important than it’s ever been today. And math man, like he or she, who can pay the most to acquire the customer like Dan Kennedy has said for years wins period.

Joel Erway:

One of the things that you will notice in your market. And I’m speaking to the listeners right now is like, if this doesn’t, you’ll notice these symptoms, if you are in a. If you are in an Uber saturated market or a market that is just numb to all of the claims. Like what you’re going to start to notice is yes, you’re going to start seeing outrageous claims, but it’s now beginning to become a race to the bottom.

The first time that I experienced this and notice this for myself was when I started. And this was probably three or four years ago when I started seeing. Facebook ads, agencies and freelancers start promoting their services. Don’t pay me until you get results or like, you know I’ll work for free until you turn a profit or something like that.

Like, You’re screwed. I mean, like you’re, you’re not screwed in a bad way, but like you really need to now start to build your proof, start to build your arguments, start to build your evidence and start to build your own methodology because that’s what you’re competing against. You’re competing against people who are going to work for free, unless you can.

Position them develop stronger authority and attract better clients because who do you think is going to re who do you think is going to raise their hand to those types of ads? Like I’ll work for free until you get results or don’t pay me until you until you get results now. Okay. That’s a freaking killer offer.

Now, like, I mean, it’s like, you don’t see those operas run very long, probably because they get a lot of takers and whether they, they can either fulfill it or they can’t. But like that is like, when you start seeing like those types of offers and you can, you can apply that to many, many different niches, but that is a sign that you need to start.

Up your chops. You need to really start to sell based on mechanism. You need to start to sell based on methodology. That’s unique differentiator. And that was kind of the big kick in the teeth. For me, it’s like, good Lord. Like if I ever want to market my agency, like this is who I’m going up against, I’m going up against these people who are, who are promoting free services.

And it’s like, I don’t ever want to. No be compared to them. And thankfully we’ve never been compared to them. And like when we have a sales conversation, but like, it’s just a perfect example of like, that’s the race to the bottom. And now you start seeing all these low ticket offers coming out or are saying like, you know, buy this, you know, for my $5 book is going to outperform any $10,000 course.

It’s like, you’re starting to see it manifest in like many different forums and like, yeah. Better start to your methodology, your mechanism, because otherwise you’re going to get eaten by these $5 offers by these.

Todd Brown:

that’s so true, man. It’s so true again, you know, I, man, I couldn’t agree with you more, you know, markets evolve and you know, you’ve got to recognize that, you know, there, there are people like better offers are gonna come out.

Bolder offers are gonna come out. You know, and, and and so you’ve gotta, you’ve gotta be prepared for that. You’ve got to anticipate that be prepared for that. Nothing remains the same, right? Like nothing remains the same. Some markets evolve faster than other markets. But nothing remains the the same.

And I think that you, you made a great point and, and you know, we can, we can wrap with this, that, you know, you, you made a great point and that is like, look, you really ultimately, always want. To position and present what it is that you do so that it creates an apples to oranges comparison. You don’t want to be, you know, you don’t want to allow for an apples to apples, right?

Like you don’t, you want, what, what you offer is different. You’ve got something proprietary, you’ve got something unique. Right. And so you’re no longer like, because it’s unique and it’s proprietary and it’s only available through you. You’re not at the mercy of the market in terms of pricing. Right.

But when you, if you allow you the, the, you know, listeners, your students. If they allow their product or service to be viewed as a commodity because there is no differentiation. Well then they’re at the mercy of what the market sees that commodity is, is worth. Right? If you sell a gallon of gasoline, you’re ne you’re never going to be able to charge three times what every other gas station is charging because it’s commodity.

And so you want it. You really want to compete if you will, or position through differentiation, you don’t want to try to compete on promises like by enlarging it, making it better, you don’t want to try to compete solely on claims. You want to have something different and you want to be able to explain what makes it superior.

When you can do that, you can write your own. You really can’t that that’s at the heart and soul of marketing, it’s always right. Like that’s it. And then you just make a crazy proposition and offer that is just harder to say no to than it is to say yes for the mechanism that they now see as the best solution for them.

Joel Erway:

And you’ve got a Yeah, man. A hundred percent. Couldn’t agree with you. I couldn’t agree with you more. And so Todd, it’s been a blast, man. It’s always great to connect. It’s great to learn from you. And I’m glad I got to have Yonda. To brag about ShipIt and to show who I’ve learned. A lot of my methodology is from and where a lot of the background concepts come from.

And so working, we send people, I know you’ve got a book.

Todd Brown:

Yeah. They can go. Yeah. I think e5methodbook.com. I think it’s a few bucks. I think the team has it for seven, 10 bucks, something like that. I’m not sure what they and it just gives an overview of the methodology. And so if you want to learn a little bit more method, book.com, but man, my pleasure, my honor, dude, like I said, at the very beginning I love watching what it is that you’re doing.

I think that you are bringing tremendous value to the marketplace, so neat. So necessary. And I think that you’re really like I love seeing you. I love seeing the success stories, you know, from your clients and your students, man. It’s, it’s so cool to see. And so it was an honor, man, for me to be here today.

Joel Erway:

Awesome. You’re listening right now. Go check out, go grab Todd’s book. I bought it. I’ve gone through his program. I’ve gone through a lot of his stuff and if you liked my stuff, you’re going to love Todd’s stuff. Bottom line. That’s that? That’s the pitch that I’m going to give you. So Todd, appreciate it, man.

Go check out Todd stuff and we’ll catch you all on the next episode. Sure.